What is it you can do to battle Stormers ????

I've tried to learn from this thread. When we got blasted w/ hail and an "inland hurricane" in '09, I had only one hail claim under my belt. We had hundreds of calls a day for a month or more. I almost bought exactimate, although I had never known anybody to use it before this. Glad I didn't as the time it would have taken to learn it would have stressed me out even more so.

We had a dozen+ workers and I'm the only salesman, unless my Dad felt like running a few bids. I had 100 roofs sold for us , which was great. However, it was hard enough to manage sales and the guys. Few wanted to wait 6 months, and as the list grew, my sales went down.

I'm attracted to the money you speak of Rocky, but I'm unsure I want anybody putting a roof down in my name. Many of the people in this area went to school w/ my family, or just know us from being around. I would hate to have them call me back in eight years because their architectural shingles are sliding off their roof because I hired monkeys who can't hit that a mythical thing called a "nail line"

I accidently touched on another issue/ strategy: SUPPLIERS

We should pound them with the same message that the stormers promote to the public: We Will BE Here After The Storm

If you are mis treated by your supplier during a storm, or if the stormers are ever given prefenterial treatment don't forget it and remind them of this: We Will BE Here After The Storm

Of course this may not work w/ ABC and national suppliers as well.......

Rockydog Said: Robert, Chucky doesnt like stormers, he, like I, and every roofer, likes STORMS. Storms create business for all of us. :

I hate storms. Don't like profiting off other people's hardships. But not doing residential, hail isn't such a bid issue. When we have storm problems it's usually much more severe than shingle damage.

"Most of our flashing will out last 3 shingle lifetimes. of course that was 20 year shingles, so let's say 2 laminated shingle lifetimes. Are we replacing it because we want to charge more money.... maybe in your area it rusts out sooner."

You mean the 15 year shingles that lasted 30 years or the lifetime shingles that might last 25 years?

Oh...back on the topic.....I don't believe you can stop them....Just imagine if you where in a state w/o licensing!...it's absolutely absurd! Everybody's a roofer and they come out of every crack....Homeowners are accosted via canvasers/flyers, telemarketing....you name it....I don't get real excited about trying to sell a roof to a HO, who's already talked to 20-30 "roofers"...It's whole nuth'r science....

Rocky....I moved some 20 yrs ago, from a similar climate...I prefer it, to the hail crap.....Unfortunately your re-roof market, for many years to come, was just gobbled up by those stormers....and that's a fact jack! it's gonna be slim-pickens for quite a few years. That was a fluke hail storm.

I'm in the mountains now,,,no damaging hail....Hooray!!!!!

I'm still pretty close with a couple of former employees, that are contractors in Ca....You can just about set your watch, so-to-speak, as to the re-roof market/wokload you can expect year-in & year-out......

Flagstaff got 94" 2 years ago led the nation. They normally get a lot. Phoenix on a good year gets 10", averages 7" and we are 1-1/4' behind already this year. Areas that get frequent rain, not necessarily storms ,stay busy with roofing work, Storms generally bring catastrophy work and the chasers with it. Those with little rain and even fewer storms go hungry or they be come innovative in how they create work. That would be door knocking, realtors, property management and a few other avenues. Im not a firm believer in tearout wall flashings. If you do that then youre tearing up the walls as well. If youre doing that then youre driving the cost to the HO or the insurance company up. I dont feel it is necessary to take it out if it is in good shape and if its in good shape and you can't put a good roof on with it, then there's something wrong with your abililties. Most of our flashing will out last 3 shingle lifetimes. of course that was 20 year shingles, so let's say 2 laminated shingle lifetimes. Are we replacing it because we want to charge more money.... maybe in your area it rusts out sooner. As far as my having the infrastructure and capital, I have no advantage than any other roof.

C'mon woody, everything in life is FREE. What the heck, you think we ought to be paying for insurance????

Seriously tho, true storm damage is one thing. Calling an organic roof failure Hail Damage is when I start to smell a RAT. Or at least 2 rats: The Adjuster and the Contractor teaming up.

I'm with you on the true storm damage scenario Rocky. But egg pretty much pegged it....it's a PIA in-between situation here. And if I'd a caught on sooner to the organic shingle as Hail Damage scam, I'd have a few more bucks right now....

Did a small Home Show today. And yes, the Local Stormers have moved their FREE ROOFS signs indoors.

It was startling when one of them bragged to me that the local supply house is his "mentor" (not sure of his exact words). Hmmmm. He also had never seen a steel shingle. Not sure he has even seen a roof......

I don't know if we will have "National Stormers" here as it is a semi rural area. Seems like the "Local Stormers" will put up the 1st line of defense......

I did ask one how they could even afford to do insurance work. He just said it paid Lots More than his other work. He must be a SERIOU LOWBALLER.

I imagine you get more precip in Flagstaff than you do in Phoenix but point well taken. I'm with Woody; we get some wind damage from time to time, and some flooding, & earthquake stuff, occasional fires, but no wholesale periodic hurricane, tornado, and hail catastrophe waves. I'm starting to think that TomB is in an intermediate zone, probably twill also, where it's just frequent enough to be disruptive to otherwise normal market conditions. I am reminded of my vexation with Darryl years ago when he kept saying, "Tear out all that wall flashing when you do a reroof...no exceptions." I finally grasped that in Florida all those flashings have to be set in a solid 8" bed of mastic, per code. Well, yeah, you're not going to be saving any of that so of course it has to be chucked out each time. Different set of givens lead to different conclusions. Actually, if you have a situation like Rocky where you have the infrastructure and capital to constrain the migrant roof people and essentially press them into service, you basically owe it to the local building owners to do that as a matter of public service if nothing else. (and that line of reasoning would certainly sell, no doubt about it.)

Woody & TomB, I would agree with both of you if my area received as much precipitation as either of your areas. Actually most of the country gets more rain except maybe Death Valley. If we didn't have rain we wouldn't need roofs and if we didn't need roofs we wouldn't need roofers. Phoenix has had rain one time since the middle of December 2011 and unless we get it this weekend won't recieve any until our July monsoonal flow comes thru. Hopefully! It doesn't always come. Sometimes it's just giant dust balls. We don't necessarily look at the storms for insurance work, rather, to wake up the HO and remind him that he has a roof problem he has neglected. If it doesn't rain, they don't call. Kinda like the "out of sight out of mind" syndrome. Storms aren't the culprits here. They will always be here They bring the fruit to the market. WE all depend on them. Geez, it's like "knock and the door shall be opened" when the opprortunity presents itself..... It's Chuck in the truck, no offence Ciak, and the storm chasers, which is what this topic is about and what we should be discussing and is evading us, that ruin the market. You can't tell me that if you had a 4 year old roof and it just got hit with 2" hail, you wouldn't turn it over to your insurance company. That's not a mindset. That roof, if it isn't shot to hell, certainly will be in 2 years. and then what? you're gonna fork fork over 10-15 grand for a new roof. Right? I have ocean front property in Arizona. :laugh: . And it doesnt matter if it happens every 3 years. If it's shot it's shot. That's what you pay you premiums for. and yes, that's why your rates go higher. If you don't agree with that move to a different area of the country where there isn't as many storms. We dont get rain and only a few localized storms. In Oct 2010 we got slammed as hard as any city ever had and we had hundreds of storm chasers come in here and they got too big a slice of the pie. Salespeople, tearoff crews, install crew, siding, windows, cars not to mention companies like Jasper that brought, rumor has it700 people into our marketplace. That's the topic. How do we slow THAT down? The Williams gang flows thru every year, we have our gypsies groups and our illegal immigrant bands. We have always lived with them. The storm chasers were new to us down here and we didn't like it. I think the last time was 1988, long forgotten.

I don't like storms...It ruins the market....Instead of a steady need for new roofs, as they age...It's feast or fammine...A frenzy every now & then...A crappy way to operate...JMHO

As for "insurance work"....It's my price & that's it....I can't honestly sympathize with contractors that allow the tail to wag the dog, by allowing insurance companies to dictate what they're going to pay them....It's absurd...JMHO again :)

I think areas that are subject to frequent claims start to develop a mindset that roof replacement/repair is always an insurance issue. It degenerates into a viscious circle, more people making claims, drives up rates, people feel their paying so much, they need something back and are more readily making claims. And then the insurance companies have so much activity they are able to easily set comparable local rates based on easily obtainable data. It's a dutch auction to the bottom.

The three states with the highest insurance rates are Florida, Texas and Louisiana. I work in two of the lowest 5 for rates, OR and WA and maybe that's why it doesn't effect me.

You know, the wife likes to take off for a long weekend at least onece a month. I have a lovely granddaughter 4 and a grand son 3, that I just spoil to death. I give to St.Mary's Food Bank, time money and food, The Salvation Army and the local sports teams. Vegas is 4-1/2 hours San Diego and LA are 5, the Grand Canyon is 4. I have 6-8 salespeople that do the claims, not to many denied. I did have one yesterday, teed me off. The point, Robert, is that we are looking for solutions to slow down the storm chasers, and you asking me about something that is irrelevant. Phyliss Diller said " if you want something done, ask a busy man" and Im busy. I dont have to wait for a storm and I dont have to chase any storms. But if the fruit is lying on the ground waiting for some buddy to pick it up.... what would you do? Leave it there? wait for the storm chasers come pick it up. I can't apologize if you're to busy to take on more work, if I become too busy I'll hire someone new, put them thru all the hiring phases, shake their hand, give them what training maybe necessary and welcome them aboard.

Hope your not to busy denying claims to enjoy yourself! :laugh:

Ok this is getting crazy. I have been called out again after being home 1 day. This going to be a very busy season. I will keep the latest news reports on Stormers. I think I will call it Storminess updates. B) :) :) B) Deep Down In Florida Where The Sun Shines Damn Near Every Day