What is it you can do to battle Stormers ????

Been gone awhile happily forgetting about such things, but I see all y'all been very busy.

Tim, over time I happen to have arrived at a good number of the same conclusions you have, but I side firmly with TomB on the subject of basic licensing. So long as the bar is low enough to make licensing accessible to a wide range of people, not just the rich, the slick, and the trick. But when you say, "Almost NEVER is the solution to a problem found in more government regulation." I am curious what you are including in the "almost."

(going back a couple of pages to a sub-thread) Rocky I can see you were speed-reading there when you say, "I dont feel it is necessary to take it (sidewall flashing)out if it is in good shape and if its in good shape and you can't put a good roof on with it, then there's something wrong with your abililties. Most of our flashing will out last 3 shingle lifetimes."

Obviously.

"I finally grasped that in Florida all those flashings have to be set in a solid 8" bed of mastic, per code. Well, yeah, you're not going to be saving any of that..."

I can't even imagine tolerating those working conditions. Add to that, what was it Jeff said way back when...in the Keys every permit application had to have approx. 140 pages of wind upload specs included before it would even be considered. Can you even fathom that lunacy?

So we have people with Cat 4 hurricanes conversing with people with baseball sized hail, people with no hail, people with no rainfall. I know a lot of things can be standardized but in the back of my mind there is absolutely no doubt that many things can't. Wonder we speak the same language when it's not the same language.

Huh????? Ya lost me roofguy......

BTW; There's no "guise"....I'm a dinosuar; remember? I still think, it's the contractors' obligation to look out for his customer, as well as the general public...and that includes every potential consumer out there. What's the cliche'? "Honestys' the best policy"?

And..For Pete's sake...Enough of the knocking legitimate/effective licensing; It's fact that licensing cuts down on the shyster/riff-raff & does provide consumer protection.....If, (theoreticaslly), Colorado, (no lic), was to wave a magic wand & implement a licensing progrtam such as Az., Ca. or Utah, (possibly OR., WA. ID), there would instantaneously be at LEAST 50% less roofing contractors here....AT LEAST.

And another thing.....Could you imagine what AZ. would've been like, if there was no licensing?.....Rocky; You can't imagine!

Almost NEVER is the solution to a problem found in more government regulation.

TomB Said: Oh, dont be ridiculous roofguy! Surely one wouldnt allow leakage....You must surely know, as well as any, that most of the hail damaged roofs were talkn bout here, dont need replacing right away....In total perspectiv; A very, very few, in fact.

You are missing the point. You want some government entity to step in and protect you from competition via licensure. You also want to insert yourself in the decisions of other roofers and their customers.

I say, butt out! You run your business and don't try to increase regulations for me just because you think you know what is best for others, under the guise of looking out for the consumer.

I think your in for an education Rocky....(the storm-chasing, that is) ;)

TomB, I think you're right when you say that can't be stopped, but they can be slowed down. Simply by being proactive in your area when a storm(hail and/or wind)happens. You are closer to the diaster and could react must quicker. If you don't want any of the action then you really can't biotch about the stormers. If you do want part you have to move fast. On your other note, Home owners rarely see 2 let alone 20-30 salesmen in a storm. the first guy there is so good he wraps it up in one call. Talk about a high closing ratio. Mike H, you don't what? someone has a roof leak, it's a hardship. Storm related or not. It's all about profit maybe not greed, but always profit. And if somebody needs your help with a hail ridded roof or you going to turn them down? I don't think so. You are blessed if you have enough work you don't have to go looking for it. But what's enough? Hail damage sometimes is not evident in an area until 2-3 years down the road when the gramules fall onto the driveway and the nice roof turns black. The whole neighborhood looks lile it falls in to decline at the same time, plunging home values, HO's move out and start rentals, which invites crime. Yea, you can blame this on a hail storm with hail small enough the the adjustor said no to everything in the neighborhood. Small hail does damage. Let me take a couple of drumsticks to your brand new car for 2 minutes and see if I do damage to the hood of your car or truck. Damn right. TomB. Greed? Unscrupulos? How Naive? Many insurance companies have a time limit on the Recoverable depreciation which is a 1/3 to 1/2 the cost of the project. Sure Mr. homeowner you can wait 3-4-5 years and then call me, but you'll have to pay out your own pocket. And don't forget to save that money the insurance company gave you in the beginning or you'll have to come up with that to. Right, go ahead and listen to the roofer who told you that joke. Roof-dawg, if you have any more then 3 crews then you need a damn good supervisor. You can never trust the crews. Thats why most companies stay small. So they can keep an eye on the crews. If you get larger then you need more management to watch the ones you can't. Then you get to the point that you're watching supervisors and not crews and so on. You have to make sure the supers do their job correctly and you can make. Twill, that might just be the answer. Join them. My goal is to go nationwide(as an licensed contractor, needed or not). I am licensed in Montana, Missouri, Utah, Registered in Texas and a few other states. Testing for Illinois and California now Cali should be easy as we have reciprocity laws. But I don't plan on chasing. I will probably set up shop in each state and put a partner or a manager in each one and let them run it. Roofguy, thanks for joining the conversation We be swinging from our harness's woody, gosh do the guys hate them. But what's the difference falling 10' from a 4/12 0r a 10/12?

Maybe I'm just being naive here....."How to become a stormer"? I can't think of a more simplistic adventure....I could understand, something more like; "How to convince myself to become a stormer"

Oh, don't be ridiculous roofguy! Surely one wouldn't allow leakage....You must surely know, as well as any, that most of the "hail damaged" roofs we're talk'n bout here, don't need replacing right away....In total perspectiv; A very, very few, in fact.

TomB Said: twill; You bring up an old point I had long forgoten, but, was a prime observation of mine, when first exposed to the storm frenzy.

Typically, for the most-part, these hail damaged roofs are in no way susceptable to leaking anytime soon....As a matter of fact; Anyone honest & with applicable knowledge/experience, realizes.most will perform for years....A lot of them, may & very-well do, perform right on through, or very close to, their respective life-cycles.

I believe, Ins. Co.s now,require the work,is/was actually done, prior to paying the customer.

That being said; There is no real urgency to re-roof these homes, other than the simple greed factor, of the unscrupulous contractor.

Possibly, that is the best way to combat these stormers....Simply be honest with the customer. Assure them, their roofs are in no immediate danger of leaking. It doesnt matter if the roof is done today, or a year or two from now.

Most people would rather have a local outfit do their roof, one would think.

Wrong. Baseball sized hail creates leaks right now. Your policy requires you to mitigate further damages by getting the roof repaired without undue delay.

Mike H Said:

Rockydog Said: Robert, Chucky doesnt like stormers, he, like I, and every roofer, likes STORMS. Storms create business for all of us. :

I hate storms. Dont like profiting off other peoples hardships. But not doing residential, hail isnt such a bid issue. When we have storm problems its usually much more severe than shingle damage.

Mike, many property owners see hail as a plus. They may have a 20 year old worn out roof with a replacement cost policy. Now they pay a 1% deductible instead of $10,000.

Tom, I believe the government is not supposed to create endless regulations to babysit stupid property owners. That is not their function.

RockyD. Seems you made really good money off that storm and want to continue it Can't blame you. My best year as a roofer ( not necessarily businessman) came after our 1997 (?) storm here.

The economy was good and most shinglers were doing new work, so I just kept ticking.

The only way to keep that workload going and that kind of money coming in is to hit the road.

The stormers are doing that. So is part of question: how to become a stormer?

twill; You bring up an old point I had long forgoten, but, was a prime observation of mine, when first exposed to the "storm frenzy".

Typically, for the most-part, these "hail damaged" roofs are in no way susceptable to leaking anytime soon....As a matter of fact; Anyone honest & with applicable knowledge/experience, realizes.most will perform for years....A lot of them, may & very-well do, perform right on through, or very close to, their respective life-cycles.

I believe, Ins. Co.'s now,require the work,is/was actually done, prior to paying the customer.

That being said; There is no real urgency to re-roof these homes, other than the simple greed factor, of the unscrupulous contractor.

Possibly, that is the best way to combat these "stormers"....Simply be honest with the customer. Assure them, their roofs are in no immediate danger of leaking. It doesn't matter if the roof is done today, or a year or two from now.

Most people would rather have a local outfit do their roof, one would think.

I think you're right Chuck, the point of control starts with who has the jobs.

Woody, won't they just kash out of Wash. State when the chit hits the fan? Head back over the border (whichever border that might be....)

I hsave to walk the same line as roofdawg. How do I insist that my crew does it RIGHT, then turnaround and hire subs and give them QC? My men are not stupid and me being a hypocrite would fail them.

Which I stumbled onto another point: A Hailstorm is NOT a Tornado. A Hailstorm is NOT a Hurricane. Few roofs will be needing done FAAAAAST... or Tommorrow....

Which is the 2nd point of contention w/ the stormers. (#1 being product failure is not hail damage. :silly: )

There's a road around here I travel quite often with some big apartment complexes on it. First, I noticed a bunch of two-wheel-drive pickups parked across from it, many with out-of-state plates. This was unusual because at least 3/4 of the pickups around here are 4wd.

They must have been working from the back of the complex to the front, because it took a week before I saw any activity, then I saw they were replacing the composite siding with vinyl. Then the big sign went up, Ass Pen Contractors. (minus one s and a space) With the workers in view, I noticed widespread ignoring of the 6' safety rule. Then, the next time I went by, all workers (at least 40) were wearing lime green vests and everyone at any hieght had fall protection. I couldn't help but snicker "Welcome to Washington, wonder how much that fine was." Within 7 years I'm sure they will also be familiar with our army of construction defect lawyers.

Tom, That is a good point. The stormers come in and offer the supply houses huge amounts of money if they will keep them first for what ever supplies they need over the local market. Stop that. HAH Nope!!!! NO Way.. I don't think so. Local guys need to take to the streets get in the neighbor hoods where their community is and take control. It is a battle and only those with the courage and fortitude to do it will succeed. Crying and whining is not a option. This is an epic battle for your families and the community in areas where catastrophic events take place. IMO B) :) :) B) Deep Down In Florida Where The Sun Shines Damn Near Every Day