Lots of " Are you hiring ? " calls

Aww crap my kid just sprayed the hose in the window got my carpet soaked i better call restoration services quick before mold comes in insurance will gladly pay another 40 grand for remediation paint and carpet.>>>

"what GKRFG posted was about the same as how i feel -- Almost every roof i did last year for Insurance companies would have gone another 10 years or better"

And behind every one of their ads I would guess is some marketing hype/ BS about how they are a "green" company. Makes me feel all warm & fuzzy, ya know

(You'd think while doling out the dough, they'd be educating the consumer on getting a classIV shingle too---- :laugh: )

We all know it is too weird and phucked up to be fiction>>>

CIAK you are in a position to do something I know several of the claims you work have been Marginal - and whatever type of property damage was done really is not detrimental - Big deal some paint is chiped - or couple vents have dents in them - or carpet gets wet - sheet rock wet - flowers damaged - landscape damaged - roofs and exteriors with several years life left on them - Do you not see a problem with draining the bank - What ever happened to if it aint broke why fix it? With insurance if it dont look like the day it did new we will pay for a new one if you are not happy.

People love to blame all this on our goverment and it is sad to say it is of the peoples making - You seem intelligent i am sure you can see how insurance companies and banks are taking controll - And removing the free market.

I have done so many siding jobs 1 piece of siding craked and the whole house gets redone - 1 shingle on a roof blows off whole roof done - Manufactures changing shingle every 3-5 years so nothing can be repaired to look right>>>

Well i have pretty much accepted things the way they are - But i keep triing i will still make a living either way. Just fiquried i would try to get some advice from CIAK like i have tried with so many others.I am kinda offended by the comment of sitting on my butt since he does not even know me - I have been in business for longer than most companies around I am the owner and i still get out and work - Last week i did 3 repairs not just send a few guys out me and another guy i ran 5 bullcrap leads - my salesman ran 4 bullcrap leads and the crew finished a siding job - and in between everything i have contacted independant agents as well as several property management companies as well as took the time to come here and ask a little advise about what i have learned of - I still have to play the game how it is being played - Because no one seems to care - Department of commerce, tv stations, govenor, etc all know who i am from the emails / Phone calls.

what GKRFG posted was about the same as how i feel -- Almost every roof i did last year for Insurance companies would have gone another 10 years or better.

It is also kinda ironic that the banks are the ones who finance insurance companies to pay claims - remember all them banks giving money away a couple years ago so people could re finance their homes and make some improvments? well i take it there were not enough people borrowing money because they figured their house was still in good shape - i think the majority of them probably were until the chasers come to town financed by the ins company who is financed through the banks that just seems way too strange?

And on another note maybee most people now work just so we can give our money to the banks and insurance companies they will take care of us - hell its all on paper now lets just go to work everyday and let the banks and insurance companies take care of us and tell us what we can and cannot buy, sell, trade, repair, they have their hands in our pockets all the way. I guess if you work or are in with the insurance companies you are rewarded pretty well - this is why i am triing to get in does not make it right but CIAK is right this is were we are - And i guess that is where most people like it being taken care of no responsibility - Its not my preferred choice but like i said i have to play the game - and it is free to whine until some people from the ins company sooner or later will find a way to turn you in for asking for help - oh yea that called bribing / conflict of interest etc... no we have to play by their rules i do understand.

What kinda business can one start where there is no risk and only profit? 2 that i know of banking and Insurance.

Seriously i have to pay my bank to take my money and loan it to ins companies then on top of that i have to take even more of my money and give it to the ins company ?

Cannot Casha check without an account or am penilized even more so -- cannot own anything unless it is insured just in case someone gets hurt on my property - Or the bank makes me insure the property or the city/state.

>>>

Thanks guys finally something with substance. twill I'm not talking about you. I like where this might be going now. An awful lot of information suddenly like a hailstorm lots of roofs to do as an analogy. I will try to post to what is pertinent as I see it , now that doesn't mean I am the end all I'm not.

Miscreant Said: The insurance companies want to settle the claim as efficiently as possible.,, True,,... They don't care about the quality of the work,,,, Not True,,, They don't care about the contractor because we are not their customer...... Half True.... They care about their policyholders only to the degree that their claim gets settled.......... True....... If they create an environment where their customer gets screwed after the claim is settled, they don't care......... Absolutely FALSE ....... CIAKs opinion of the storm disaster process is shared industry wide. We get that...... True

The problem is that if we all don't learn to work together we are all going to suffer...... True I have been trying to make this point Thank You ............ A prime example of that unfolded here in Columbus, OH. We got hit with the remnants of Hurricane Ike up here on September 15, 2008. Most of the roofs that sustained storm damage were roofs that were replaced by the storm chasers in the 2003 hail storm we had. This is an instance where the insurance industry’s ambivalence to the quality of work came back to bite them in the rear end..... Not nessecarliy ....... They ended up paying twice for something they could have paid once for....... Maybe yes , no How do you know this ?????? They could have had a happier policyholder in the end as well.,,,,,, Half true Maybe If the claim is settled then the H/O's are happy

The policyholder figures out what the deal is eventually. The insurance industry measures customer satisfaction by polling the policy holder after the claim gets paid. They don't measure satisfaction with work performed, or at least don't feel connected to it. Most importantly, they don't measure policyholder satisfaction after the homeowner finds out how they got screwed.

The problem your industry faces is the porosity of information and how rapidly it is distributed.,,,,,, Can you explain what in the hell you are talking about here ????????? There are too many leaks in the levee. Before your policyholders start burning down your skyscrapers and slitting your throats you might consider turning the whole thing around.......... This is just idiot talk up to turing the thing around

Why not coach your customer on what to look for in a contractor?........ That is done to some degree by local agency . You know this is true ........ I don't see anything on your website that addresses that. Why not offer a download to local contractors (that in all other regards is better able to serve the policyholder than the storm chaser) outlining what you need from them to do work? I don't believe its the industries intent to essentially offer more money to uninsured contractors performing substandard work with less of a warranty because they know how to game the system. True true... That is what is occurring however. The fact that you may not care or accuse me of self serving complaining doesn't change it....... The problem is more than just insurance work and is the fault of the roofing industry as a whole to blame it on the Insurance Company is scape goatin at best

I'm sure insurance executives didn't set up the storm claims process to create bribe money for the adjustor's and I believe that most adjustor's just want to earn an honest living.... Very True.... On the other hand if ever there was a system that created moral hazard, it is this one. It demands too cozy of a relationship with adjustor's and storm chasers in an environment that is by definition rushed and confused. Add to the mix a class of adjuster whose compensation is linked to the size of the claim and you have a system that is a

"I was not saying or even suggesting that you rent your business as a model." I did not think you inferred that at all CHUCK.

Back to CHUCK: "If I leased my business to these Stormers for 4-6 months or so,......?" But WE ALL KNOW THAT IS WHAT HAPPENS! Damn, I know I ain't too smart, but I sure in the phuck ain't blind!

"I've got no problem finding fault in my business model....." What I meant by my statement is I know that my business is not perfect. I did not mean to infer anywhere in this conversation that it is.>>>

Miscreant, thank you for saying briefly what has been taking me a long time to uh, well not exactly say :blush:

If the Inss. Cos. show no inclination to be fair and honest, then you are correct, how are we to assume that they are fair and honest, besides that "they so?"

The point you made for them to reach out to, and utilize the local contractor, would indeed save them lots of $'s in the long run, if not even short term. What in the hell is so hard about E-mail, faxes, and even snail mail? The contractor infrastructure is ALREADY IN PLACE everywhere in America. Maybe they should try using it. I don't see why they could not even supply the Exactimate programs. Or at least sponsor a class. Pay for an update. etc. etc.

It would be nice to hear of the efficiencies of the existing system. Instead of "this is the way we do things"

Where there is no will, there simply is no way.

Excellent, excellent observations on your part. Kudos!>>>

Mr. CIAK< I would agree that you have an insight into the insurance angle that a lot of us do not have. I have found your take on this storm chasing phenomenon to be very informative. But, I don't think that you realize all of the bullsh!t that these companies are feeding the homeowners. They are playing a game (a very profitable one) and generating both fear and greed in the homeowners mind. A lot of us do not find it palatable to be using the stormers tactics. They have discovered this loophole in the way insurance policies are written and are exploiting it to the max at the expense of the homeowners, the ethical businesses and the insurance companies. I can honestly say that most of the storm related roof replacements done in my area were a total waste of money and material. Either the roofs had such minor damage from the so-called hail that the roofs still had 10-15 years of life left in them, or they were roofs that were already at the end of their life span and should have been roofed even before the storm came through. A lot of homeowners were fortunate to get their defective CertainTeed 3-tab shingle replaced because of the storm chasers. Hey more power to them all! The stormers are doing a great job of canvassing neighborhoods and "selling" all of these roofs. They are exploiting a legal loophole and raking in some major bucks. But they are also exploiting homeowners who believe that these companies are legitimate. They may be fooling the homeowners but they are not fooling those of us in the industry who know that they are more often than not using uninsured illegals who do substandard work and are replacing perfectly good roofs with a lesser quality job than they had to begin with. When the roofs begin to show the problems these companies will be long gone. They are also not doing anyone any favors by encouraging filing claims that will count against them when renewal time comes along and they are also contributing to the rising costs of insurance everywhere. The insurance companies are as much at fault in this as anyone and I will not believe that there is not a significant amount of money being exchanged under the counter by stormers and adjusters no matter how much you try to make this all sound above board and right. I for one am not sitting on my ass complaining about the situation. I am in a good market and have a good name and will continue to pull in my work and make a profit in spite of it all. We make good money on repair work from bad installations. This stormer thing has only come about in the last 5 years or so in my area and it smells like sh!t to me and many others. Usually when something smells like sh!t that's exactly what it is and those of who prefer not to step in it must do what we can to work around it. But it is not a good change and does not help the industry in my view. In the end we all have to live with ourselves and do what we think is right. Money has a way of helping some people justify anything that they do. I hope you keep posting the helpful info that you have but I think that you are blind to the way things really are out there. >>>

The insurance companies want to settle the claim as efficiently as possible. They don't care about the quality of the work. They don't care about the contractor because we are not their customer. They care about their policyholders only to the degree that their claim gets settled. If they create an environment where their customer gets screwed after the claim is settled, they don't care. CIAK's opinion of the storm disaster process is shared industry wide. We get that.

The problem is that if we all don't learn to work together we are all going to suffer. A prime example of that unfolded here in Columbus, OH. We got hit with the remnants of Hurricane Ike up here on September 15, 2008. Most of the roofs that sustained storm damage were roofs that were replaced by the storm chasers in the 2003 hail storm we had. This is an instance where the insurance industry’s ambivalence to the quality of work came back to bite them in the rear end. They ended up paying twice for something they could have paid once for. They could have had a happier policyholder in the end as well.

The policyholder figures out what the deal is eventually. The insurance industry measures customer satisfaction by polling the policy holder after the claim gets paid. They don't measure satisfaction with work performed, or at least don't feel connected to it. Most importantly, they don't measure policyholder satisfaction after the homeowner finds out how they got screwed.

The problem your industry faces is the porosity of information and how rapidly it is distributed. There are too many leaks in the levee. Before your policyholders start burning down your skyscrapers and slitting your throats you might consider turning the whole thing around.

Why not coach your customer on what to look for in a contractor? I don't see anything on your website that addresses that. Why not offer a download to local contractors (that in all other regards is better able to serve the policyholder than the storm chaser) outlining what you need from them to do work? I don't believe it's the industries' intent to essentially offer more money to uninsured contractors performing substandard work with less of a warranty because they know how to game the system. That is what is occurring however. The fact that you may not care or accuse me of self serving complaining doesn't change it.

I'm sure insurance executives didn't set up the storm claims process to create bribe money for the adjustors and I believe that most adjustors just want to earn an honest living. On the other hand if ever there was a system that created "moral hazard", it is this one. It demands too cozy of a relationship with adjustors and storm chasers in an environment that is by definition rushed and confused. Add to the mix a class of adjustor whose compensation is linked to the size of the claim and you have a system that is all but guaranteed to be abused.

The moral hazard considerations aside, has the industry not created a situation where the honest party is locked out? The crooked adjustor makes a good living while the honest one gets paid much less and has to suffer the same scorn as his dishonest peers. The hack contractor makes a killing doing substandard work (Newsflash! He doesn't do all the work you paid him for). The honest contractor doesn't want to bribe anybody to get work (Come on now, you know that's how it works by now, right?). She/he also doesn't want to lie about the work they are performing (how many gutters actually get replaced on a hail damage claim compared to how many you've paid to replace). Attempts at drafting the homeowner as co-conspirator is part of the process.

The insurance company that takes an approach that helps homeowners get a better job by allowing them to work with higher standard providers (at no more expense) is going to be the one that sees the biggest increase in new policyholders. People aren’t stupid; they know what's going on (eventually)

twill59 Said: Well Chuck, you are getting to closer to be able to answer a question. Close. Still havent tho. Ive got no problem finding fault in my business model. Dishonesty however, is not in the model. For anyone Lurking:

Anyway, there seems to be several ways to run Ye Olde Roofing Business.

The 2 conflicting ways that I see it: Market the traditional way, to the local populace.

Deal directly w/ the Ins., Cos. and canvas to the local populace when you hit town. An option there is also to lease the phone # & storefront of a local contractor. Instant credibility. (I dont know how the contracts are carried out in this arrangement however.) Then leave town and do it again.

Back to CHUCK:

If I leased my business to these Stormers for 4-6 months or so, and ran the contracts thru my company (if this is the way it is done) then the checks would be deposited into My business acct right?

twill59 Said: And BTW, youre welcome Chuck as I have answered your questions. Having you in a conversation is like talking to a floor lamp or a doorstop that asks questions.

It is hard for me to see how you compare greed, money grubbing and convenient ignorance with any kind of thinking or new ideas.

You are riding the gravy train, I understand that. Good for you. The Gravy Train is sad, un apologetic and has no scruples. Been that way for a long time. Does not matter which gravy train. There does not seem to be anymore to this conversation.

Lets get back to the original topic

Glad to see others are seeing through this guy. He knows nothing about our business or he'd still be in it. His kid got him the gravy job because the old lady was tired of seeing him hanging around the house doing absolutely nothing. Anyone with a bible thumper background is totally worthless........to anyone.

JET>>>

Well Chuck, you are getting to closer to be able to answer a question. Close. Still haven't tho. I've got no problem finding fault in my business model. Dishonesty however, is not in the model. For anyone Lurking:

Anyway, there seems to be several ways to run Ye Olde Roofing Business.

The 2 conflicting ways that I see it: Market the traditional way, to the local populace.

Deal directly w/ the Ins., Cos. and canvas to the local populace when you hit town. An option there is also to lease the phone # & storefront of a local contractor. Instant credibility. (I don't know how the contracts are carried out in this arrangement however.) Then leave town and do it again.

Back to CHUCK:

If I leased my business to these Stormers for 4-6 months or so, and ran the contracts thru my company (if this is the way it is done) then the checks would be deposited into My business acc't right?>>>

Assumptions are the responsibility of the local contractor to verify or deny. It makes an ass out of you . If you don't bring it to light in your neighborhood stick your finger in your eye . I guess what I don't understand is all the bellying aching and whinging . All from guys who proclaim to be experts and business owners. It wasn't the last time I will continue to proclaim what I see going on and if you can glean anything from it fine. I have a lot of good and timely information . I can't take the wax out of your ears only you can . Continue to wait for lawyers and who ever to take the bull by the horn for ya. That is so pathetic . Sorry twill it just is so lame sounding. Be proactive man. It is difficult moving out of your comfort zone . Even if it is uncomfortable . There is a huge market out there get the binky out of your mouth turn the dinosaur be lean and mean how else can I say it ???????????????>>>

And BTW, you're welcome Chuck as I have answered your questions. Having you in a conversation is like talking to a floor lamp or a doorstop that asks questions.

It is hard for me to see how you compare greed, money grubbing and convenient ignorance with any kind of thinking or new ideas.

You are riding the gravy train, I understand that. Good for you. The Gravy Train is sad, un apologetic and has no scruples. Been that way for a long time. Does not matter which gravy train. There does not seem to be anymore to this conversation.

Let's get back to the original topic>>>

"Enlighten me twill ." Last try

Most people (policyholders) are under the assumption that a local company, that will provide long term, after the sale service will be taking the Ins. CO. money and be doing the job. This is the major lie that In.s Co is promoting...... don't blame the contractors Chuck, as this is NOT one of your dirty little secrets. We know, Ins. Co.s know, etc. All know but the unsuspecting public.

Anyway, I am sure someday, hopefully some lawyer can get a handle on this, connect the dots and slam you all to Holy Hell and back. After all the lawyers are Just Like The Ins. Cos. and their hoes,..... follow the money BABY!!!!!!!!! :laugh:>>>