Concealed Carry?

Jed said "Being an experienced plinker who has a collection of "cool guns" albeit in a small safe, does not a bad ass make. What it does make, when combined with the "i'll take on a heavily armed SWAT team covered in body armour who burst into my home in the wee hrs". I have the necessary training to--wake up-- assess and understand the situation--locate and secure my nightstand gun-- locate and assess my target--make the firearm ready-- (I know, you probably sleep with it cocked and UNlocked)--assume a firing position-- aim at my target-- be aware of my peripherals and what is beyond my target--place an aimed shot at my target--be killed in a hail of returned fire, along with the ol lady--all before you get told to drop the fkng weapon, is a poor one. "

I must admit I liked that very much. I was thinking much the same thing. The no-knock warrant is likely to save more lives than it could cost. No one can react to such a thing in the middle of the night. Just isn't going to happen.

I fit the "plinking" model when it comes to handguns. I'm a proficient competitive shotgunner. Give me a small 20 ga. pump with 1 oz buckshot thru a full choke, which is by the bed, vs. the .45 and I'd take the shotgun every time. I can blast a screaming crosser at near point blank range 1 after the other, all day long. 10 years ago I started practicing with full chokes and it's amazing what it did for my scores. Today in competition I put in a modified choke and never change. I point and shoot a shotgun as a natural extension of my arm. The same cannot be said for the pistols. Your "muscle memory" comments ring quite true. For the family's sake, I walked away from regular competition almost 6 years ago. I now shoot 1 tourney a month, with no practice inbetween. I may shoot very well one month, and just slightly above average the next. Consistency can only be achieved with repetitive regularity. Fortunately, a chest cavity is much larger than a clay pigeon. Self defense is most likely to occur in a dimly lit environment. If your aim point does not naturally follow your line of site, you are more likely to be killed than to kill. One of these days I hope to become as proficient with pistols as I am with shotguns.

Gun control is being able to hit your target...... under any condition.

tinner666 Said: Kudos Tim. Just security and Army training here. Ive been able to hold fire for that split second that it took to avoid a shooting. Ive also been able to know not to hold off and pull that trigger. As pointed out, situational awareness is VERY important. :) As for accidental shootings, they went up expoentially when they took the NRA and its safely courses out of the schools in the mid 60s. :ohmy:

I would have loved to have gone into personal security for VIPs. I think that would have been a blast. Hard to do though without military/LEO credentials.

Kudos Tim. Just security and Army training here. I've been able to hold fire for that split second that it took to avoid a shooting. I've also been able to know not to hold off and pull that trigger. As pointed out, situational awareness is VERY important. :) As for accidental shootings, they went up expoentially when they took the NRA and it's safely courses out of the schools in the mid 60's. :ohmy:

FL Roofer is Jed? Well, that explains why it seems his posts were a little caustic for no apparent reason. :cheer:

What say we give that ol' battle a rest, Jed? I don't want to wade through that again anmd I'm sure nobody else wants to see it either.

Jed (fl roofer) I long ago learned the painful lesson that humans are bastards. They kill each other over the most trivial of reasons and treat anyone who is different as an outcast. I had almost given up on you. Reading your replies in this thread and I'm thinking maybe I've been wrong about fl roofer. It is possible I'm telling myself. Interesting. Jury is out for me. I would like to be wrong on this account. Tim much respect to you. B) :) :) B) Deep Down In Florida Where The Sun Shines Damn Near Every Day

[quote] What self defense did you spend 8 yrs teaching? Self defense with a firearm???

I studied Ni Gojuryu for 12 years, taught for 8. No self defense "with" a fire arm, but plenty against...close quarters only, of course. Also studied Judo, Aikido, Wally Jay Small Circle Jui Jitsu, Gracie Jui Jitsu, Dillman nerve strikes (which I found mostly bogus, though interesting).

In my opinion situational awareness training and being able to differentiate between a guy who's anti-social and the much more dangerous variety who's asocial, will keep a guy out of trouble more dependably than having thousands of hours of gun combat training. Most situations can be avoided, and that is always preferrable to trying to win a fight.

In my dojos I placed a heavy emphasis on recognizing situations where an attack might happen, e.g., a woman should never enter her car in a parking lot where a van is parked next to the drivers side door. Being good at self defense is as much about avoiding situations as it is trying to win them when they happen.

And now for your entrtainment pleasure, here is an old video of me roasting a Korean guy at a tournament, circa 1992 (I'm in the blue gi top). Granted, point sparring is far from real life self defense, but it is much more practical than people who haven't done it think it is. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLRGmtnwvnQ

Roofguy Said:

FL Roofer Said: Something that so far has not been mentioned here is the importance of training.

I dont recall the figures now, but the chances of getting shot first because you are a billy bad ass with a gun and little or no training (*training* knowledge of how and when to use a firearm) are higher than youd think. The chances of getting shot with your own weapon by a previously unarmed baddie because you hesitated or simply missed.... because of your lack of *training* are also high. Being an experienced plinker who has a collection of cool guns albeit in a small safe, does not a bad ass make. What it does make, when combined with the ill take on a heavily armed SWAT team covered in body armour who burst into my home in the wee hrs. I have the necessary training to--wake up-- assess and understand the situation--locate and secure my nightstand gun-- locate and assess my target--make the firearm ready-- (I know, you probably sleep with it cocked and UNlocked)--assume a firing position-- aim at my target-- be aware of my peripherals and what is beyond my target--place an aimed shot at my target--be killed in a hail of returned fire, along with the ol lady--all before you get told to drop the fkng weapon, is a poor one. Just as one has to learn how to drive a car, one has to learn how to use a gun. Without the necessary training they are both liabilities in the novices hand. Even more so if the novice is at large in public. Brian Eno is a great start (and finish) for anyone who wants to learn the skills of being proficient with a gun. http://www.brianenos.com Read his books, take some weekend courses, they are great fun and plentiful here in the South, not overly expensive, and you will learn alot.

For the record I am NOT in favour of tighter gun control. I held a CWP for years but recently let it lapse and have not planned on renewing it as my interest now has morphed to long guns. I am in full agreement with the adage, Guns dont kill people, people kill people no different than cars and pit bulls. I DO think however that some sort of mental evaluation, maybe half an hour with a shrink and a sign off note could be a good way to weed out those who have a clean record with no mental history but should not have access to firearms, due to very poor judgement skills/have a go hero type personality/ or I drive safer now cos Ive got a gun and I know that if I honk at you and you get out of your vehicle and get in my face then Im gonna stick it in your face A buddy of mine in Houston said the exact same thing a while back after a brother stuck a .357 in his face over some road rage. He told me he was now gonna carry his .45 everywhere he went. Thats great I told him. so instead of you gettin your pride hurt your prepared to kill or be killed over being flipped the bird on the highway. He is a good kid but he aint all there either.

Agreed. Its my nature to not do things half arsed...I tend instead to be obsessive about what Im in to. I have 8 hours of instruction from a competitive shooter, and a fairly extensive and growing library of Gunsite/Clint Smith DVDs, Personal Defense Network DVDs, etc. I have a family membership at an indoor range and try to shoot once a week to keep fresh the perishable skill of shooting. I spent 8 years teaching self defense to students who included local LEO, DPS troopers, and Sheriffs deputies...where situation awareness was a big part of the curriculum.

I have an elaborate security system at home as well as 3M security film over the back door, 15 video cameras at my business, and periodically my wife and I discuss who will do what if the need arose.

Nobodys planning is flawless, but weve done a lot more than most others. Given all that preparation, Ill probably be ran over by a cement truck. :cheer:

So you completed the course for your permit and subsequently recieved the eight hrs instruction. You also "try" to get to the range once a week...... Great. The perishable skill may benefit somewhat from the refreshment that will provide, but muscle memory will not. That would be the absolute minimum for even an $8 hr security guard. What self defense did you spend 8 yrs teaching? Self defense with a firearm???

"periodically my wife and I discuss who will do what if the need arose"..... oh god, I can only imagine how that conversation goes.

FL Roofer Said: Something that so far has not been mentioned here is the importance of training.

I dont recall the figures now, but the chances of getting shot first because you are a billy bad ass with a gun and little or no training (*training* knowledge of how and when to use a firearm) are higher than youd think. The chances of getting shot with your own weapon by a previously unarmed baddie because you hesitated or simply missed.... because of your lack of *training* are also high. Being an experienced plinker who has a collection of cool guns albeit in a small safe, does not a bad ass make. What it does make, when combined with the ill take on a heavily armed SWAT team covered in body armour who burst into my home in the wee hrs. I have the necessary training to--wake up-- assess and understand the situation--locate and secure my nightstand gun-- locate and assess my target--make the firearm ready-- (I know, you probably sleep with it cocked and UNlocked)--assume a firing position-- aim at my target-- be aware of my peripherals and what is beyond my target--place an aimed shot at my target--be killed in a hail of returned fire, along with the ol lady--all before you get told to drop the fkng weapon, is a poor one. Just as one has to learn how to drive a car, one has to learn how to use a gun. Without the necessary training they are both liabilities in the novices hand. Even more so if the novice is at large in public. Brian Eno is a great start (and finish) for anyone who wants to learn the skills of being proficient with a gun. http://www.brianenos.com Read his books, take some weekend courses, they are great fun and plentiful here in the South, not overly expensive, and you will learn alot.

For the record I am NOT in favour of tighter gun control. I held a CWP for years but recently let it lapse and have not planned on renewing it as my interest now has morphed to long guns. I am in full agreement with the adage, Guns dont kill people, people kill people no different than cars and pit bulls. I DO think however that some sort of mental evaluation, maybe half an hour with a shrink and a sign off note could be a good way to weed out those who have a clean record with no mental history but should not have access to firearms, due to very poor judgement skills/have a go hero type personality/ or I drive safer now cos Ive got a gun and I know that if I honk at you and you get out of your vehicle and get in my face then Im gonna stick it in your face A buddy of mine in Houston said the exact same thing a while back after a brother stuck a .357 in his face over some road rage. He told me he was now gonna carry his .45 everywhere he went. Thats great I told him. so instead of you gettin your pride hurt your prepared to kill or be killed over being flipped the bird on the highway. He is a good kid but he aint all there either.

Agreed. It's my nature to not do things half arsed...I tend instead to be obsessive about what I'm in to. I have 8 hours of instruction from a competitive shooter, and a fairly extensive and growing library of Gunsite/Clint Smith DVDs, Personal Defense Network DVDs, etc. I have a family membership at an indoor range and try to shoot once a week to keep fresh the perishable skill of shooting. I spent 8 years teaching self defense to students who included local LEO, DPS troopers, and Sheriff's deputies...where situation awareness was a big part of the curriculum.

I have an elaborate security system at home as well as 3M security film over the back door, 15 video cameras at my business, and periodically my wife and I discuss who will do what if the need arose.

Nobody's planning is flawless, but we've done a lot more than most others. Given all that preparation, I'll probably be ran over by a cement truck. :cheer:

Something that so far has not been mentioned here is the importance of training.

I don't recall the figures now, but the chances of getting shot first because you are a "billy bad ass with a gun and little or no training" (*training* "knowledge of how and when to use a firearm") are higher than you'd think. The chances of getting shot with your own weapon by a previously unarmed baddie because you hesitated or simply missed.... because of your lack of *training* are also high. Being an experienced plinker who has a collection of "cool guns" albeit in a small safe, does not a bad ass make. What it does make, when combined with the "i'll take on a heavily armed SWAT team covered in body armour who burst into my home in the wee hrs". I have the necessary training to--wake up-- assess and understand the situation--locate and secure my nightstand gun-- locate and assess my target--make the firearm ready-- (I know, you probably sleep with it cocked and UNlocked)--assume a firing position-- aim at my target-- be aware of my peripherals and what is beyond my target--place an aimed shot at my target--be killed in a hail of returned fire, along with the ol lady--all before you get told to drop the fkng weapon, is a poor one. Just as one has to learn how to drive a car, one has to learn how to use a gun. Without the necessary training they are both liabilities in the novices hand. Even more so if the novice is at large in public. Brian Eno is a great start (and finish) for anyone who wants to learn the skills of being proficient with a gun. http://www.brianenos.com Read his books, take some weekend courses, they are great fun and plentiful here in the South, not overly expensive, and you will learn alot.

For the record I am NOT in favour of tighter gun control. I held a CWP for years but recently let it lapse and have not planned on renewing it as my interest now has morphed to long guns. I am in full agreement with the adage, "Guns don't kill people, people kill people" no different than cars and pit bulls. I DO think however that some sort of mental evaluation, maybe half an hour with a shrink and a sign off note could be a good way to weed out those who have a clean record with no mental history but should not have access to firearms, due to very poor judgement skills/have a go hero type personality/ or "I drive safer now cos I've got a gun and I know that if I honk at you and you get out of your vehicle and get in my face then I'm gonna stick it in your face" A buddy of mine in Houston said the exact same thing a while back after a brother stuck a .357 in his face over some road rage. He told me he was now gonna carry his .45 everywhere he went. "Thats great" I told him. "so instead of you gettin your pride hurt your prepared to kill or be killed over being flipped the bird on the highway". He is a good kid but he aint all there either.

There are a bunch of people in the prisons of this great country that tried to defend themselves from the powers that be in the government and succeeded and were then mercilessly hounded and convicted. Those are the ones that "succeeded" The rest were carried by six. This is one screwed up country.

We have more people in prison than any other country in the world...Period. And we are a "free" country? Something is very wrong.

Frank,

I don't want one because I don't want on a government list.

If the day ever comes that I absolutely feel the need to carry at all times, we'll see what happens. I'm more likely to do like Terry and carry exposed on my hip as is my constitutional right. Now if we had a Vermont style CC law, you bet I'd be heading to the store to buy a comfy shoulder holster. In Ohio, all a CC permit does is put me at the top of the confiscation list.

Life Member of both NRA and GOA.

tinner666 Said: I think Id put it in a wood vise, or between boards in a vise. With something proped behind the grip. Put on goggles and use a piece of wood or small brass drift, and hammer, and see if I could drive the bolt itself out of battery. Make sure all is safe downrange in the event of Murphys Law coming into the picture.

I misinterpreted your reason for not having a CC, I believe.

3 hours ao, a preacher caught 2 thugs breaking into his church. He has a CC. He called PD and made them lie on the ground. One threatened to shoot him. He told the perp he WOULD shoot first if he tried it. Cops took them away. :laugh:

I have no desire to shoot anyone for any reason. From everything I've heard, you're put through heck even if it's ruled justifiable, and that doesn't mean you still won't be sued civilly.

Just from a standpoiont of improving society, when the time comes that a high percentage of citizens are armed, and they are shooting guys trying to do them harm, more bad guys will take up stealing copper wire from abandoned buildings rather than holding up 7-Elevens. I don't think you're gonna cure societal ills by carrying a gun, but you can change crimminal behavior by carrying guns.

There was a time that I felt my backfist was quick enough to get the jump on most bad guys from arm's length regardless of what he might be armed with. That time came and went.

I think I'd put it in a wood vise, or between boards in a vise. With something proped behind the grip. Put on goggles and use a piece of wood or small brass drift, and hammer, and see if I could drive the bolt itself out of battery. Make sure all is safe downrange in the event of Murphy's Law coming into the picture.

I misinterpreted your reason for not having a CC, I believe.

3 hours ao, a preacher caught 2 thugs breaking into his church. He has a CC. He called PD and made them lie on the ground. One threatened to shoot him. He told the perp he WOULD shoot first if he tried it. Cops took them away. :laugh:

No, the shell is stuck 2/3 of the way into the chamber, and either the ejector or some other part is stuck to the base of the shell. I cannot move the slide in any direction. I am afraid that any effort to force it from the barrel may ultimately cause an action that could cause the pin to fire. It may be in such a location that it could make contact with the primer. And while this would not be my first experience with an exploding shell (happened right in my face at a sporting good store when the bottom broke out of a box), if it were to happen in it's current position, the bullet would definitely exit the barrel with enough energy to do some damage.

Mike Pull your action back, and lock it. then you'll have full play in your port. As i hear it Mike,your round is 2/3 the way up your riffeling. Nothing can happen if you were to jam it or poke it from the barrel side, the primer is on the other side. Don't worry about that round.Giver Sh*t. from the top end :dry: