Concealed Carry?

The "Breakin gone wrong" thread got me wondering how many roofers carry. I carry a Glock G26, and recently bought a new holster for my Sig Sauer P239 Tactical, but alas, it was just a little too long to be comfy. The Sig definately shoots better though - kinda like comparing a Chevy to a Porsche when comparing to the Glock.

Since the weather is bad today I'm probably heading to the gun shop later to get one of those new Springfield EMPs...always wanted a 1911 style handgun.

You?

Mike H Said:

Roofguy Said:[quote]Roofguy, there is no old battle to drop.

Nope, I disagree. Our Second Amendment places no such restriction on our right to keep and bear arms. Shall not be infringed, is the verbiage.

...Every week there is a story in this country about grandma being awakened by a burglar, picking up grandpas .357 wheelgun which she has never even touched, and blowing the BG into hereafter. Granted, training and licensing is preferred, but not necessary. Thats the beauty of firearms, theyre the great equalizer.

Without fail, the first thing I read each month in NRAs American Hunter (also appears in American Rifleman) is the monthly column, The Armed Citizen in which just such scenarios are highlighted. Regular people, taking care of their own defense.

NRA's Rifleman magazine is always a good read and also has stories about citizens who defended themselves.

You make me feel great Frank. Twice now I have gone into the courts and been busted for carrying my Swiss Army Knife. It's only 2" long. I have to sign it in and then sign it out. I forgot I was even carrying it. You don't have to be afraid of me, I don't even know what I'm carrying. :blush: PC

:laugh: I feel the need to tell about my day at the Capitol Building were I addresses the General Assembly one day. CCW owners may go inside armed. I do. More guns in there than the street, I think.

Anyway, before I go through the metal detector, I drop my keys and wallet on the belt, show my permit and lift my shirt to declare the 9 and tell the cop I have spare magazines in my pocket. I go through and the alarms freaked 2 of the 5-6 state PD on the other side. Wanted to see what I had. The one I declared to and 3-4 others said to let it be. NO WAY!!! I lift my shirt, start pulling mag out, then find a 2" pocket knife mixed in with the mags! :woohoo: A Police Capt. walked up when I pointed out that I sure didn't need, nor would I use the knife if I was there to cause trouble. Capt. and the regulars calmed the 'rookies' and I proceded to the Assy. Crazy day indeed.

Roofguy Said:[quote]Roofguy, there is no old battle to drop.

Nope, I disagree. Our Second Amendment places no such restriction on our right to keep and bear arms. Shall not be infringed, is the verbiage.

...Every week there is a story in this country about grandma being awakened by a burglar, picking up grandpas .357 wheelgun which she has never even touched, and blowing the BG into hereafter. Granted, training and licensing is preferred, but not necessary. Thats the beauty of firearms, theyre the great equalizer.

Without fail, the first thing I read each month in NRA's "American Hunter" (also appears in "American Rifleman") is the monthly column, "The Armed Citizen" in which just such scenarios are highlighted. Regular people, taking care of their own defense.

A few examples that extensive training does not guarantee performance:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AmRN00KbCr8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXem0mACyAU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMGtoejjhAc

I would a lot rather see guns in the hands of good people who don't have the training you think is the minimum acceptable, than to have them in the hands of thugs. I like my odds of not getting accidently shot by a newbie a lot more than my chances of not getting shot at the stoplight by a would-be carjacker.

This is a hangup a lot of cops have about CHL. Most cops I've talked to are against CHL. Allowing joeblowcitizen to carry a firearm removes some of the feeling of specialness many of them have grown comfy with.

[quote]Roofguy, there is no old battle to drop.

Oh, sorry, I thought you were Jed.:cheer:

[quote]I am just not an advocate of the strap and carry mentality that most CHP holders adopt when they get a permit. It is an understandable mentality I believe but purely fictitious. Understanding that IF one decides to carry a firearm as they go about their daily routine then they must also be prepared to kill. There is no shootum in the leg scenario. The reality is - assess - confront - act. The act part being placed rapid fire, and it is utterly unobtainable by anyone who has not and does not train. Period.

Nope, I disagree. Our Second Amendment places no such restriction on our right to keep and bear arms. "Shall not be infringed," is the verbiage.

The fact is that every person in this country, whether or not they have a CHL, has the right to shoot anyone who they feel represents grave bodily harm. A CHL merely expands the areas in which they can do that.

It is not my place, it is not your place, to summarily decide who does and does not have enough training to carry a gun.

To suggest that "the act part being placed rapid fire, and it is utterly unobtainable by anyone who has not and does not train," defies logic. Every week there is a story in this country about grandma being awakened by a burglar, picking up grandpa's .357 wheelgun which she has never even touched, and blowing the BG into hereafter. Granted, training and licensing is preferred, but not necessary. That's the beauty of firearms, they're the great equalizer.

Lastly, your opinions are based in theory, not reality. How many YouTube videos have we all seen where cops with years and years of tactical training, SWAT experience, and competition shooting, only to see in the security video that all that training went out the window the instant real bullets began zinging? I've seen it countless times, their proper shooting stance, hand placement, and discipline go out the window as they point their gun in the general direction of the bad guy, turn their head away and blast away indiscriminantly in hope God will guide the bullets to the bad guy. They get tunnel vision, adrenelin eliminates fine motor skills, they makes mistakes, more often than not. This is well-established, it is not debatable. So then, if extensive training does not always help a guy, why imply that those without extensive training aren't competent to carry a gun?

Jed & Ciak together, make me laugh. :S PC

I hope so. You being in close proximity. We will run into each other down the line somewhere. I want to be able to speak to you and about you with respect. Jury's out. B) :) :) B) Deep Down In Florida Where The Sun Shines Damn Near Every Day

CIAK Said: Jed (fl roofer) I long ago learned the painful lesson that humans are bastards. They kill each other over the most trivial of reasons and treat anyone who is different as an outcast. I had almost given up on you. Reading your replies in this thread and Im thinking maybe Ive been wrong about fl roofer. It is possible Im telling myself. Interesting. Jury is out for me. I would like to be wrong on this account. Tim much respect to you. B) :) :) B) Deep Down In Florida Where The Sun Shines Damn Near Every Day

You are wrong ciak....as usual.

Roofguy, there is no "old battle" to drop. I am just not an advocate of the strap and carry mentality that most CHP holders adopt when they get a permit. It is an understandable mentality I believe but purely fictitious. Understanding that IF one decides to carry a firearm as they go about their daily routine then they must also be prepared to kill. There is no shootum in the leg scenario. The reality is - assess - confront - act. The act part being placed rapid fire, and it is utterly unobtainable by anyone who has not and does not train. Period.

They make it pretty clear during CHL training that your life will be made miserable for a long time after even a totally justifiable shooting. Something all wrong with a judicial system that will allow the relatives of a repeat felon who got shot/killed while he was carjacking someone, to the shooter in civil court.

During class they go over a lot of scenarios and how to shut your mouth after a shooting until a lawyer is assisting you, and how you have to sweat it out 2 years post-shooting to see if you'll b e sued civilly. Nope, I'm only shooting if absolutely necessary. Ironically, my CHL instructor would know what he's talking about on this - he stabbed/killed a fellow employee at the gun shop where I took the class, then had to wait 2 years to see if he'd be sued. Here's the story:

http://smoothbluz11.newsvine.com/_news/2007/10/08/1011635-accused-killer-still-walking-around-in-lubbock-county

I do not carry, no permit. My husband did but he had the training and the wherwithall to be discretionary about using the gun. He never did. But his warning to anyone even thinking of carrying was "you have to think before you shoot, once you pull the trigger it's on you". I find it a paranoid way of living. JMO

roofguy, I think you are right. We have all these gun laws against us, but the wackos get them anyway. These lawmakers just don't get it. They are tying the hands of the good citizen. My dear friend in Canada was telling me of her Dad burying his guns because of the law changes up there. That was a few years back. From living up there for 2 years , everyone had guns...a way of life. PC

Old School Said: Not criticizing anyone. It is just that a Law Abiding citizen is no threat to anyone but a criminal when they are armed.

Well said OS, well said.

Silibica, good for you. The country will be a little bit safer with you carrying.

Patty, you're probably talking about the Luby's Cafeteria shooting in Killeen. I've read the lady's story and can't remember why she wasn't carrying that day - I think it was before Texas got CHL. If I remember right about 17 cafeteria customers were killed that day. That is very unlkely to happen in Texas today because chances are 5-10 people in there would be armed.

When you think about carrying being not a good thing, ask yourself how you'd fell if you were sitting in that restaurant with your family when a nutcase bursts through the door and starts summarily executing people. No sir, I'm protecting my wife and others in that situation.

I guess, for me, carrying a firearm picks up where karate left off for me in a way. Before losing my leg I felt like I could handle 999 guys out of 100 if we were attacked. Now I feel I could only handle 998 of them. :cheer:

Not criticizing anyone. It is just that a Law Abiding citizen is no threat to anyone but a criminal when they are armed.

I wish I could remember more of the story. The most I gathered from it was there were many stipulations with a carry permit in Texas at the time. Very sad story. PC

I truly understand your attitude, instinctually , easy to say, I think I would have reacted differently NOT thinking of the law. Situations have been presented to me and I have found that I am a reactor. Take care of business and worry about the consequences afterwards. Please don't take out of context. I am far from a troublesome person. But none the less, put it in front of my face, my face is in front of yours. PC