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natty
If a roofer opts out of workerscomp and gets hurt on the job who pay for his recovery and medical bills?
natty
lanny Said: ---Required in my state to become a licensed contractor i.e. a legitimate contractor. Lanny
Yet my state does not require roofers to be licensed much less carry insurance. And no business/contractor is required to carry workman's comp. In fact, an employee can opt out if his employer voluntarily carries workman's comp thus reserving his rights at common law.
I am interested in the reasoning behind this because in every legislative session some numbnut social engineer introduces a bill trying to license roofers. It has never passed- yet. What is funny is that several years ago they required drywallers to get licensed and the only requirement was they carry insurance.
Now I understand why insurance may be considered wise to carry, but I fail to see any reason why the state should mandate its purchase. (Just because some may violate a state's mandate does not mean that the requirement is not indeed mandatory.)
lanny
---Required in my state to become a licensed contractor i.e. a legitimate contractor. ---I cannot remember the state minimum but I carry 2 million. ---To bid on any gov't work or any permit required roofs you must be legit. Anyone can check the state webpage to see if you are licensed or not. You must renew annually with certificate of insurance and 12k bond. ---You cannot legally advertise anywhere without a state contractor registration number which is required to be listed in all advertising. ---If you do work and are unlicensed the customer is not legally required to pay you a penny. You have no legal rights to collect in court either. And you can/will be fined if caught. ---Liability insurance protects you not the customer. The customer must sue you in court if he has a claim. Your insurance will defend you or settle the claim. The customer may attach your bond, however under certain conditions. The bond is only 12k so that is the limit you would have to pay on that claim. ---Roofing can be high liability with accidents, mistakes, etc. You are liable for a leak down the road that stained the $500,000 Picasso painting. You are liable if a roll falls off the roof and kills/injures a child. You are liable for the fire that did $60,000,000 damage to an apartment building from torchdown...that actually happened about 10 miles from me. Another actual case occurred when a company was repairing about 60 skylights on a warehouse. The skylights were left off and we had a thunderstorm over the weekend that caused $ 1/2 mil in in damage to the contents of the warehouse. ---In addition to that my state requires L & I insurance (completely different from liability insurance) to cover any claim from an employee... like injury, medical leave, disability payments, etc. There is a lot of fraud in this area as anyone can claim a backache and go on disability which pays you to stay home. One case had all kinds of doctor's testimony while the state hired a private investigator who video taped the guy skiing, chopping wood, etc The state lost in court and the guy still got a couple of mil in a settlement over his "alleged" disability. ---I shop the market for liability insurance every year when I renew through my agent. However, L & I insurance is run by the state and I think I pay around $5.50/ man hour. I cannot shop for that. The state runs the fund and sets the rates which we must pay.
Lanny
twill59
natty Said:Honestly I dont care about mandatory Liability Insurance.....there is no such thing anyway.What do you mean there is no such thing? Often the only requirement when states decide to regulate a business is liability insurance. Most states require mandatory auto liability insurance. And we just got mandatory health insurance.
Does not seem to stop anyone according to the people I've talked to from most of the 50 states. Does not seem "mandatory" in the slightest
soldierboy
Any roofer that doesn't have liability insurance and has anyone working for them is a crook. If your guy falls you'll need that liability insurance or workers compensation insurance. If the sky opens up on you and get dumped on you will want that insurance. I am a gambling man however when it comes to the business, my home, my livelyhood I control that through Insurance. That is what lowers my risks. To each their own but if you come up against me in the bidding process I will always show the homeowner how they should protect themselves and only hire a company Large or Small that carries Workers Compensation and Liability insurance.
natty
Honestly I dont care about mandatory Liability Insurance.....there is no such thing anyway.What do you mean there is no such thing? Often the only requirement when states decide to regulate a business is liability insurance. Most states require mandatory auto liability insurance. And we just got mandatory health insurance.
natty
twill59 Said:Who would hire a self Insured jackleg?
Anyone who knows the self insured jackleg is a real roofer doing the job and not a salesman rounding up a bunch of day laboring third world refugees slapping on a roof covering.
twill59
natty Said: Liability insurance covers the CONtractor. Selling the idea that liability insurance protects the homeowner is a lie. If a CONtractor wants to buy insurance- fine. I have yet to hear a valid argument for mandatory insurance on anything. Insurance is and should always be a choice.
Exactly why I have it....to protect, me, my business and as you would put it, my ASSets (family) :laugh:
Since TX is the greatest place on earth, and --what?-- 8 out of 10 roofers are gettin' by on such low rates, who would hire someone w/o a pot to pee in to strip off their roof? Who would hire a "self Insured" jackleg?
At least w/ "mandatory" (no such thing really) insurance the legislators see the need to step in protect the public from $150 per sq "businessmen" .
In other words, since most fools in this trade don't consider it important to even feed their own family, someone needs to protect the public if something goes wrong, someone gets hurt, something gets broken..
The $150 per sq "businessman"? Sure....He'll "self Insure". .....He'll pay up if something goes wrong. With WHAT? The pot he does not have to pee in? An IOU?
Honestly I don't care about "mandatory" Liability Insurance.....there is no such thing anyway. I have it by choice. Just like I have a home, a business, a family.
tico
I don't know much about intellectual. I'm A construction worker. Not A salesman, saleswoman,,salesworm. When I do engage sales, I contact the actual carrier, the state insurance commission or read A home owners policy. First hand self sought solutions, that's what momma ingrained in us. She would say, find facts don't listen to A fools ramblings about supposition.
natty
tico Said:Great ass-sumption.
Didn't ass-ume a thing. Just applied facts to the law and common sense.
I am still searching for a valid argument in support of mandatory insurance. All I have ever gotten is "because the legislature said so...". We are still unregulated here in Texas but the pressure is always on. In search of intellectual honesty.
tico
natty Said:Great ass-sumption. Your not in A conversation with A shoe salesman turned roof God sales pro, screw the ins. Co. If you want to call it A kickback you can. I call it A property owner that didn't get the run around for months on end because she didn't hire A schlep working out of A Volkswagen with A tail light warranty. She had A guy that met her, explained the job, and was careful with everything from her shrubs around the pole, the house, taking off shoes to not mar her carpet, that then had an incident and ran from responsibility, then met the adjuster, met the work crew for the install. Beck then an pre-wire install was 32 bucks, the office gave about 5-8 A day. 2 men could do 20 A day in Miami in the same neighborhood. I knew from my previous "trade" the value of customer satisfaction. I had built the quickest street car and street drag bike in Miami from customer satisfaction. I knew that handling A dirty mess personally would benefit. It did. I had references every day for over A year because I had some sport about me. We never took office leads and I had 3 guys and we clocked easily A grand to 1200 bucks A week in around 1981. Cable in Miami was booming. I panned alot of gold from it because I cared. You can poke and dig, that's fine, personally, I'm also A troll on sites, just not here. It is fun isn't it? :woohoo:Insurance fraud is when you ask for it or give to get. I asked her for nothing or sought through manipulative conversation. You know, like the greatest majority of national roofing companies that work storms. They commit fraud blatantly. In many ways.Ive seen them openly advertise free roofs. Blatant fraud and opens up all kinds of problems. Nevertheless, you received a kickback out of insurance proceeds whether it was asked for or not. Did you claim this benefit on your income tax return? Your insurance contract required you to pay the deductible. You not only did not pay out of pocket, you gained from the claim.
natty
Insurance fraud is when you ask for it or give to get. I asked her for nothing or sought through manipulative conversation. You know, like the greatest majority of national roofing companies that work storms. They commit fraud blatantly. In many ways.
I've seen them openly advertise "free roofs". Blatant fraud and opens up all kinds of problems. Nevertheless, you received a kickback out of insurance proceeds whether it was asked for or not. Did you claim this benefit on your income tax return? Your insurance contract required you to pay the deductible. You not only did not pay out of pocket, you gained from the claim.
tico
natty Said:Insurance fraud is when you ask for it or "give" to "get". I asked her for nothing or sought through manipulative conversation. You know, like the greatest majority of national "roofing" companies that work storms. They commit fraud blatantly. In many ways.tico Said: I proceeded to my truck, got out my policy, sat down with her, made the call, A week later the adjuster, 2 weeks later her and I were having coffee. She asked me as the carpet guy got her signature if I had A deductible, please show her. I walked out with A check for the deductible, and A tip.wow, tico, thats insurance fraud. Anyway, why should liability insurance be mandatory?
natty
tico Said: I proceeded to my truck, got out my policy, sat down with her, made the call, A week later the adjuster, 2 weeks later her and I were having coffee. She asked me as the carpet guy got her signature if I had A deductible, please show her. I walked out with A check for the deductible, and A tip.
wow, tico, that's insurance fraud. Anyway, why should liability insurance be mandatory?
tico
I carried liability when I did cable installs, thank baby bajeebus. My guy decided to drill through some carpet to put in the coax. Rather than X the spot or at least tape back the ticking he drills through. In 15 seconds he pulled in 2 web strands and I had A 2 lane dragstrip running through her living room. I proceeded to my truck, got out my policy, sat down with her, made the call, A week later the adjuster, 2 weeks later her and I were having coffee. She asked me as the carpet guy got her signature if I had A deductible, please show her. I walked out with A check for the deductible, and A tip. Would you like to hear about my experience when I was lumber jacking? And my guys scratched the paint on A car hauling limbs? They didn't cover my deductible, granted, yet I didn't have to pay them body shop prices out of pocket either.
