Union verses Non-union

This question is for the employees, not the employers out there.

Given a choice between working for a union company or non-union company, which would you choose?

Is there a roofers union in your state? How do their wages compare to non-union wages?

With all the talk about illegals and low ball bidders, I wonder why there isn't more discussion about the advantages to being in a union? >>>

Is it warm down there all year long? I know the world cup is going to be in South Africa next year in our summer, but it will be Winter there at that time!

I saw that Jed. Quite a few people were hoping for it

Looks like your idiot BIL won't be going union after all Tom. The games went to Rio.

Picking up here too.... slightly..... I have not cut prices either

Boy, we are really getting busy, and we aren't cutting prices either. Trying to figure out how to get everything done! good problem to have in Michigan!

Last Months Price Joke: Homeowner thought his 2 layer t-off w/ chimney work, might be between $10-12,000.

He took the $8200 bid while rejecting the $9200 bid and of course, mine, @ over 15K was not even considered.

Just goes back to what I keep saying: These guys would rather work for the homeowner for next to nothing than to make more money by having a job. I don't think it is about money. I believe that it is more about ego and being "right". No one criticizes when all of phucking up.....

IF you are good and clean and sober, show up for work every day and know how to do the work AND do it, you should be in the union. The wages and benefits are what you deserve, and if you are really good, you can get more per hour than the contract calls for. You make a good living without having to break your back trying to collect money and bid jobs, and the company owner gets good qualified help to do the work. That is all that a person can ask for!

I also know of the abuses that occur. The same thing happens in a non-union shop, only sometimes it is disguised as theft or incompetence. Those of us that are good should demand to be paid what we are worth, and then go and prove it. JMHO

My idiot B-I-L who thinks he can run his business on $35 per manhour, now sez he will go union if Chicago gets the Olympic Bid and they start building.

My 1st reaction: Will you insist on lower wages and less benefits like you do now? Will you remain a phuckhead, or get in line?

I mean he is running his company for $35 an hr., now he must accept a wage that is similar, plus has benefits? Maybe he will go on strike for less pay his 1st day on the job.

As far as I am concerned every idiot contractor NEEDS to go union. Don't let the door hit you in the a$$ :angry:

oh my! That is terrible no matter who it was.>>>

But Jed, if he had been paid $10/more per hour, he would have been smarter.

All kidding aside, that is a horrible shame. The only thing that a good crew, be they union or non, could have accomplished with a strong Team-Safety mentality, perhaps someone would have paid closer attention to everyone's fall arrest equipment. Maybe not. It's a culture issue, not a pay issue.>>>

An accident, is just that. An accident. Like being struck by lightening, or broadsided by a semi. Almost everything else involves negligence, and usually, not thinking of what you are doing and being aware of circumstance. Walking off a roof running a power broom is stupid. We had a laborer less than two months ago walking backwards on a flat panel roof, wearing a harness that was'nt tied off, step on a plastic deadlight and fall to his death. Fell onto a hydraulic pipe bending machine 35 feet below. Bled out cradled in the arms of two of the factory workers. 23 yrs old. Dead. Not thinking. Safety does indeed start with attitude.>>>

Well Jed, I appreciate that! I will tell you that it doesn't matter what you are paid, but what you produce. If you pay someone 15K a year and he costs you 25K, you lose. If you pay 60K and he makes you 80K you win.

I work for a Union leasing company. That is kind of like a private union hall. The good ones are snapped up right away and when things are busy, we get the situation like you are talking about. On the other hand, if you get a bad apple in this kind of situation, you don't fire them, you "Lay them off" That doesn't take an act of Congress, it just takes a layoff check!

One more question: what would you say to one of your employees if he/she was cutting lumber or grinding without safety glasses? How about walking around on a construction site beneath scaffolding and people working above without a hard hat? Would you condone it? My greatest fear is being injured by soneone elses carelessness. I say safety first.

A roofer was critically injured in Kalamazoo yesterday. He fell from a flat roof with a large piece of machinery (I am assuming a power broom or a roof cutter) and evidently landed on his head. It doesn't sound or look good. That is death we are talking about, and there is no second chance. Safety starts with the correct attitude, and it is learned one. Bad mouthing the small things leads to larger accidents and death.>>>

O/S nothing aginst you, like I said. I could write a book on why unions are bad news, as I'm sure many others could. The only proponent of such an organisation is likely one who is employed by them. Like ciak and the ins industry, the difference between you two is you are genuine and are being objective about who your employer is. I respect your views/your work and the knowledge you bring to us all. I'm gonna get off this thread now.>>>

The nails don't "stress and break off" because nails don't do that when hammered into the roof. That's what they are designed for. Second, you can't just fire a union roofer. It takes an act of congress to do that and everyone knows it. Unions are designed to protect their own, it is a principal at the very core of their charter. If it were'nt they would implode. Divide and conquer. Fer crissakes they just bankrupted the largest carmaker in the WORLD. Do we learn nothing from that? The unemployment rate in Michigan right now is 15%. Why? I don't want a roofer to give me 8 hrs work for 8 hrs pay. I want 10 for 8 and I'll slip him an extra hundred bucks at the end of the week with an attaboy. Not because of the extra production, but because of the attitude..... 'an If I ever see a new hire pull up and climb out of his truck donning safety glasses and a hard hat he'll be fired before he even starts up the ladder......sixty grand a yr with bennies says it all. >>>

I use both methods, but predominately slate hooks. Have been using them for about 30 years and I have never seen one break off yet. I have galvanized hooks and also copper ones. Why wouldn't the nails "stress and break off" for the same reason?

Regarding union vs. non-union, don't you realize that you can fire them? We run the lazy and incompetent ones off too. By and large though, the better people and craftsmen are going to be the union ones. I can assure you this, if you had me working for you, you would be paying about $60,000.00 a year with benefits and you would be asking me where you could find about 10 more like me. You wuld be making money and you wouldn't have to worry about the job being done right or theft or waste or stolen tools. Safety would be an important aspect of the business, and we would produce. I am on the job early every day, and I give 8 hours work for 8 hours of pay.

I know what you are talking about, but stop painting everyone with the same brush!>>>