State Licensing Shot Down Again!

I've lived & worked in both, states that have licensing & states that have none....Licensing most definitely & undeniably improves/elevates the caliber of contractors, as well as protects consumers....Nothjings ever perfect, but licensing, (authentic-enforced licensing), works.

Twill You are playing devils advocate. I'm saying completely the opposite. Licensing protects no one. It becomes a huge draconian system with the image of protectiion. Reality, it is stomping all over individule rights and freedoms. If you don't live in a state with licensing be glad. Watch what you wish for. You just might get it and if you get it. Then you just might not know what to do with it. Cause it just might come back on you tem fold. eminem B) :) :) B) Deep Down In Florida Where The Sun Shines Damn Near Every Day

Chuck makes the point that licensing will protect the worst of us.

TomB Your argument about law enforcement. NRA and Florida where citizens have the right to defend them selves. Thank God for this. Instead of the law requiring people to walk away from an arguement, people can stand their ground until someone looks like they might be threatening. You clear leather and open fire. What is the definition of "feeling threatened" To you TomB? Should apply to Contractors and most other professions. It would clear all the debris in a short period of time and put people in charge of their lives again. No more nanny state. Back like it was in the day when time wasn't like it is today and a mans word was all it took. Cheat or screw with someone, they will come looking for you. You won't be shitting on people for long. B) :) :) B) Deep Down In Florida Where The Sun Shines Damn Near Every Day

Then again, some may feel the "PC", duck n' run, (avoid/hide), method isn't as efficient as simply picking up your gun and go shoot the damn wolf.....Possibly with a neighbor or two to help hunt him down.... ;)

Freedom is a difficult concept to grasp, primarily because we haven't experienced it in this country for so long. When every industry thinks their situation is unique, and thus nanny state rules are ok for them, you get what we got. A nanny state where the government is expected to hold the wolves at bay.

Me, I prefer a caveat emptor approach where people in business are presumed to be wise enough to outsmart the wolves.

I am sure that a sub is supposed to be licensed but nobody checks. And if the sub is licensed he also has no employees so there is no W/C insurance any way. Great intentions with the law but no enforcement.

In Indiana we have the wonderful logic of getting licensed and permitted in every 'burg, town, county and city that wants some of somebody else's money.

State Licensing= One Stop Shop. That's about all I care about

Makes perfect sense....

Does Il. only require "prime" contractors to be licensed?....Wouldn't "subs" be required to be licensed as well, since they are "contracting" / independent busineses?

Herein is the problem....Laws are passed with good intentions, then left un-enforced....So, either round-file the whole mess or enforce them....Don't pass laws that will not be enforced.

I am always against more govt regulations and I did not welcome licensing when it came to Illinoisy. I now see some good reasons for it but I would probably still be against it if we didn't have it. There are loopholes that make it nearly worthless. The one thing I think is good is that in IL you have to get a bond to get a license and without good credit a lot of less than desirable characters are not able to get the bond. The big problem I see is that you are required to carry GL insurance but not WorkComp if you have no employees which encourages the use of subs that carry no insurance at all.

Hope that made sense. B)

Ciak....I get your drift. However, my argument is not for the sake a some sort of "validity"....That's what goes on in Colorado, as wywoody pointed out...all the different municipalities with their own, specific "contr. lic."; They're all a joke. it's mainly for consumer protection, which it turn, elevates the public's opinion, (for lack of better word(s)), of the roofing/contruction industry. Let me give a prime example; In 92', upon arriving in Denver, I opened the yellow pages and started calling roofers....Most all the large/page ads where disconnected.....vs., open the book in most any Calif. comunity and most all ads/companies are viable/legitimate businesses....State contr/ Lic/ # is required on all advertisement, etc....it doesn't take long, to realize, Colorado is swimming w/sharks....It was, also, at the time, one of the most litigated states in the U.S.....(just as many lawers as roofers...LOL)....It's just a nastier place to do business, as a consumer as well as a contractor, (legitimate contractor, that is....On the other hand, it's nirvahna for the more unscrupulous types)....

"Inspecting"/code enforcement is for the local bldg. depts....has nothing to do w/licensing.

Inviting additional government regulation is never a good idea. Do you want some clown inspector who couldn't make it in the roofing business, dictating what you can do on the roof and how to go about it, and when? I don't.

I would a lot rather all the lions (roofers) be shoved into the cage together and let survival of the fittest choose the winners, rather than have a lion tamer (inspector) with a rifle wandering around outside the cage summarily choosing winners and losers.

One of the reason this continues to go round and round ad nausea in my opinion.... Persons( contractors) who have some experience with roofing sales , I believe sales is really what we are discussing here. Contractors usually positively impressed with the idea of Licensing fall prey to this notion .The licensing advocates will personally validate the idea and believe the license proponents are telling them truth about themselves ( this is called " Face Validity) Personal validation gives a powerful subjective impression of truth, but unfortunately, the impression can be created by methods that have nothing to do with objective validity. Correct me if I'm wrong. The license issue is all about more sales to the licensee whether or not the roof is applied correctly. That is why lawyers have such a lucrative business. Licensed contractors who install roofs that leak are only subject to the contracted (owner) if they pursue the case. Nothing to do with quality installs or for that matter and most importantly " Quality Craftsmanship " B) :) :) B) Deep Down In Florida Where The Sun Shines Damn Near Every Day

I worked in Colorado 1975-6 in the Denver area. While there wasn't a state license, there was a city of Denver license that involved testing. Every suburban city required its' own license and the result was far more hassle then if there was just state licensing. They also had a law not allowing branch banking back then. Wierd state.

Shade-tree roofers affect us all....not necessarilly by directly taking work, but more damaging they are to the industry/craft in general....Licensing is consumer protection more than anything. Yes. along with that, come some perks to legitimate contractors, as it drasticcally reduces the "dummies" we all, (consumers, as well as businesses), must contend with, otherwise.

Some of us might think there's no need for the police officer. a common concepted "necessary evil" in our society....We'd all be much more respectfull, kind, courteous to our neighbor, if we all had guns strapped on our hips....Which is undeniably, most-definitely true....However, that will never happen either.

And yes, dawg....That's exatly what goes on ion non-licensened envioronments....As soon as a guy thinks he knows enough; Whallha! he's a contractor!.....It also breeds the seudo-sub phenomena, (miss-represting employees as independent sub-contractors), which, it turn, promotes the use of low-pad, illegal workforce.

We've hashed all this around & around over the years....Unfortunately, people are creatures of habit, ("sheeple"),....For instance; The president we have now....