State Licensing Shot Down Again!

I too had a similar revelation, in that, I'm quite possibly what one would consider a libratarian. I understand your view, I think....

However, it's ironic that alot of therse guys spewing the 'no gov't' wouldn't be in business or even have the opportunity, if there was lack of gov't! They're afraid of licensing, they'd have to clean-up a bit, as it tends to level the playing field.

The market place does indeed decide the winners & losers; Licensing or not....My possition, is that the current situations, (half-arse gov't/laws-but not enbforced), actually creates opportunity allows for the deadbeats, so-to-speak, to flourish. Either do it right or don't do it at all, & we know we're not going to eliminate gov't.

Should we just eliminate drivers licenses as well? What about medical licenses?

Tom, "less government" is not a fad. It is the way our founding fathers set up our system of government to run. The Constitution is our Operator's Manual and the day it goes out of style, or becomes passe because people think it's old and stale, will be the beginning of something totally new and less in this country. We've already started down that path; I'm not going to be part of that.

I used to think I was close to being a Libertarian, but their stance on a few issues gave me pause. After awhile it came to me: Libertarians aren't necessarily on one side of those issues or the other, they just think it's not the government's place to meddle in them. That makes sense to me.

It's a slippery slope when people in every industry say things like: "I too dislike government intervention..." but then go on to explain why it's ok in this one instance where it affects them. Trouble is, everyone says that and everyone wants an exception made. Farmers put forth a semi-plausible rationale for why subsidies aren't welfare, but it doesn't wash. The solar industry is subsidized, electric car manufacturing is subsidized, etc. Everybody has some reason why their industry needs government intervention. And here we are as a country, broke and less free, with regulations out the wazoo.

I think the marketplace should decide who're the winners and losers, rather than letting winners and losers be decided by who can assemble a powerful group of lobbyists to get the rules changed that will favor themselves.

Thanks JSC for your rational opinion(s)...I complety agree w/you.

I'm speaking from first-hand experience working in states with & w/o state licensing...and yes, prior to experiencing working in states w/o licenesing, I didn't neccessarilly have a pro-licening opinion. I most-definitely do now. My opinion is open-minded and truly well-intended; For the good of consumers, as well as the trade & legitimate/ethic businesses....Absolutely not for personal gain....We have all the work we ever need, and always have.

BTW; We are flourishing in Colorado....We are blessed in that we are always in high demand and stay very busy,....don't turn down much work, but then again, most all our work is referral and we don't go looking out of our comfort zone.

I too disslike uneccessay gov't intervention, however, the "less gov't cliche'" spewing, has gone a-muck and is getting old.

These clowns are so funny they have made them selves exempt from any prosecution. he he he he ha ha make me gag. + exempted themselves from OBAMA care he he he he he ha ha up yours America. B) :) :) B) Deep Down In Florida Where The Sun Shines Damn Near Every Day

I left Dick Turban off the list because prison is too good for im. He should be waterboarded instead. :)

Damn Roofguy, what you got against Republicans? :laugh:

Don't forget Dick Durbin from....ILLIONOIS!

We're at a turning point in this country. People need to get back to what The Constitution says our government can and can't do. I think a good start to that is some very long prison sentences for a few crooked politicians, like: * Barney Frank * Chris Dodd * Chuck Shumer * Jan Shakowsy * Maxine Waters * Sheila Jackson Lee * Barbara Boxer * Nancy Pelosi

Let these elected clowns know that there is a price to pay for abusing the high privilege they've been trusted with.

Its nice to see a few of you that get it.

Yup, right on roofguy. I proposed it was all about sales. Craftsmanship is a side or non issue. I suspect TomB is getting his underwear handed to him and doesnt want to adjust adapt. Whats the story Norm??? Its a dog eat dog world and Im wearing milk bone underwear. Cheers B) :) :) B)

Yep.

Fate and timing have handed to us the monumental task of saving the American way of life for our kids and theirs. We have badly abused that responsibility thus far, letting our elected officials run this country's finances like a Kool-Aid stand, and finally electing that Socialist moron president all so that voters could have a warm fuzzy feeling about being part of history.

We should be sent to our room without supper - only problem is, we're supposed to be running this thing.

Let the free market settle out who is to be the winners and losers. The government can keep us from killing each other, settle contract/land disputes, and fight our wars when they are necessary. Just about everything else can be done better by the private sector.

quote/]Roofguy Said:

TomB Said: What's the sayings? Ignorance is bliss? / Perception IS reality? Sometimes I get the feeling I'm talking to my five year-old that plugs her ears and wails....lahh-lahh-lahh-la-la, making certain she doesnt upset her own little perceived reality of a situation....

Well Tom, only one of us seems to be doing what youre saying above. And its not me. :)

My perceived reality really isnt part of the discussion, because licensing doesnt and wouldnt affect me one way or the other. Texas has no roofing licensure, and if it did it would be a snap for me to get it. I carry $1 million general liability and abide by all the rules and laws...roofing licensure wouldnt affect me, other than the distasteful act of handing over some more money each year for a brand new bureaucracy.

The issue is bigger than you and its bigger than me, which is what Im trying to get you to see. So it costs you a few jobs because people you see as less qualified take them from you. Frankly, if you cant outsell the fly-by-nights, maybe you should work on your marketing/sales approach rather than asking the government to step in. My experience has been that the customer who will do business with a fly-by-night roofer, isnt the kind of customer I want anyway. As my dad always said: The sooner you can get a roofer like that and a customer like that together, and out of your way, the better off youll be.

But again, its bigger than all that. Id hate to think that Id be willing to be party to leaving this country in worse condition, with a bigger and more oppressive nanny-state government, just because I wanted to make things a little easier for myself.

Your competition in Colorado is beating you in a tough economy, and you want the government to step in and help you. Trouble is, a lot of roofers have adapted and are doing just fine in this economy, so dont propose rules that affect everyone, just to suit your needs.

Youre proposing letting the camel get his nose under the tent...

Yup, right on roofguy. I proposed it was all about sales. Craftsmanship is a side or non issue. I suspect TomB is getting his underwear handed to him and doesn't want to adjust adapt. What's the story Norm??? It's a dog eat dog world and I'm wearing milk bone underwear. Cheers B) :) :) B) Deep Down In Florida Where The Sun Shines Damn Near Every Day

TomB Said: Whats the sayings? Ignorance is bliss? / Perseption IS reality? Sometimes I get the feeling Im talking to my five year-old that plugs her ears and wails....lahh-lahh-lahh-la-la, making certain she doesnt upset her own little perceived reality of a situation....

Well Tom, only one of us seems to be doing what you're saying above. And it's not me. :)

My "perceived reality" really isn't part of the discussion, because licensing doesn't and wouldn't affect me one way or the other. Texas has no roofing licensure, and if it did it would be a snap for me to get it. I carry $1 million general liability and abide by all the rules and laws...roofing licensure wouldn't affect me, other than the distasteful act of handing over some more money each year for a brand new bureaucracy.

The issue is bigger than you and it's bigger than me, which is what I'm trying to get you to see. So it costs you a few jobs because people you see as less qualified take them from you. Frankly, if you can't outsell the fly-by-nights, maybe you should work on your marketing/sales approach rather than asking the government to step in. My experience has been that the customer who will do business with a fly-by-night roofer, isn't the kind of customer I want anyway. As my dad always said: The sooner you can get a roofer like that and a customer like that together, and out of your way, the better off you'll be.

But again, it's bigger than all that. I'd hate to think that I'd be willing to be party to leaving this country in worse condition, with a bigger and more oppressive nanny-state government, just because I wanted to make things a little easier for myself.

Your competition in Colorado is beating you in a tough economy, and you want the government to step in and help you. Trouble is, a lot of roofers have adapted and are doing just fine in this economy, so don't propose rules that affect everyone, just to suit your needs.

You're proposing letting the camel get his nose under the tent...

There are too many frivolous and redundant laws on the books, with thousands more being passed every year. All the time we hear that it is the people who wanted the new laws, but it's remarkable that in most cases I never heard anyone say so. They are mostly passing them for power, control, and political gain and to appear that we actually need all the lawmakers.Oh, and also just because they can. Give a kid a crayon and what's he gonna do?

But TomB's somewhat right about licensing. Not completely, because I'm in California and I do know of instances where employees are be paid as subs. Licensing also hasn't stopped cash payrolls or massive numbers of illegal alien crews, or misclassifying employees for workers comp purposes, or the use of seconds, or short sheeting, or cheating on specs etc, etc, etc,.

What it has done is levelled the playing field to some degree by requiring a bond and wc insurance.

But I suspect that it's real purpose is tax collection, and since a license is also contingent upon compliance with all other govt impositions and they have made owning and operating a business a revocable privilege, not a right, it has ominous potential.

Roofguy Said:

TomB Said: .........

The point being, you can look to officials to level the playing field, or you can realize youre in a full-contact business and adapt ways to defeat your opponents rather than neutering them.

I kind of get it. Us legal guys are already neutered. So what is the racing analogy? Put sugar in their gas tanks? Slit their tires? It is business so what the Hell, let it RIP! Buy off the judge and the guy who does not even finish the race wins? Or the guy that never started? And screw the ticket buyers also. What do they expect? This is business BABY!!!!(They spent money right?)

Sorry but sports is a poor analogy because (Dennis Rodman excempted here) there are at least 1 or 2 rules that matter.

Analogy: US is losing in volleyball to France in the Olympics. What to do? What to do? I know: Bring in the GB Packers offensive line in full pads to wipe out the other team just as they serve. WE WIN!!! WHO CARES .......it's just business Dude!

Sorry Tim it is just too friggin' ridiculous out there to compare it to sane, rational and organized gamesmanship

What's the sayings? "Ignorance is bliss"? / "Perseption IS reality"? Sometimes I get the feeling I'm talking to my five year-old that plugs her ears and wails....lahh-lahh-lahh-la-la, making certain she doesn't upset her own little perceived reality of a situation....

shinglemonkey Said: California should only be used when you need an example of a bad example.

I simply can not understand why anyone that pays attention to how government works can be for more government. Doesnt matter what the topic is, large government is a bad thing that requires more taxes from you and I.

That it exactly!

Some of the same people who whine about too much government, ask for a little bit more of it in order to protect their rice bowl. It's maddening.

A little consistency would be a good thing. You can't say you think government is too big and oppressive, except for this one little area where having them more involved means more money for you...either you're for limited government or you're not.

In this country we have too many referees, and not enough players.