Repair ?

twill59 Said: Also overhang the rake sufficiently since the field shingle coursing did not work out. Put it in crooked if need be, but run it across the valley bottom.

I would not run that course crooked. I take about 18" of shingle and run it across the valley from 1 plane to the other. Just like the valley metal would run, then trim it on the left side to run the water out past the face board. This way the high course looks semetrical.

I guess this is why I run that little piece of flashing past the valley, like they did on the left side. Put it in tight to the framing too. With a rake trim board over it, a leak is inconcievable...

But, it happened

Also overhang the rake sufficiently since the field shingle coursing did not work out. Put it in crooked if need be, but run it across the valley bottom.

I had a long reply wrote, lost it. Picture is worth a 1,000 words. Should never of ever leaked. Bad detail work

That place is liable to blow up.

I won't even look at it again until the experts converge upon the abode.

After seeing your pictures it most likely is coming from the valley base - barge board tail area.

The roof framers will often just nail the angle cut edge of the plywood sheeting from the dormer through the plywood on the main roof without any solid blocking underneath. They will nail down to the point at the base of the valley as well as into the tail of the barge board sometimes.

When the roofer shows up he has a choice of pulling the nails out in this area and feeding the underlay and whole uncut shingles up under the valley base or leaving the nails in and cutting and notching the shingles to fit as best as possible in this area. I would guess that the latter choice was made and there is a spot that is lacking both underlay and shingle close to the tip of the barge board and base of the valley.

Water is probably getting in during wind driven rains or snow melt on the roof.

I would look in the attic first to observe what nail patterns are in this area as in regards to the framing process. This may give you some insight into the cause of the leak and what to expect if you start disassembly of this area from above.

Egg: " And yet, still, I have a profound respect for Chuck and any other craftsman who realigns a business to make them a staple. I haven't done that yet, but there could come a time when I might. I could see doing that. At that point I would take the position that all I am selling is my time and my time has to be paid for. You figure your time and material, including driving time, and make damned sure there is also something in there to feed the company. "

Egg, I really appreciate the comment that you made. As a roofer there are no trophies or awards except such kind words from clients, friends, etc.

The way you described it is exactly how I bid except it's time and experience instead of just time.( that may be what you meant anyways ) In my view, a specialist deserves to be compensated as such irregardless if it's a doctor, lawyer, Roofer or any thing else.

As a specialist and a professional, I don't do "questionable" repairs. ( Sorry Ole Jack but I don't even purchase roof tar and that's "NO BULL". ) :laugh: I bid and perform the work in the way I believe it should have been done during the installation thus the problem they are having would never even have occurred.

In residential re-roofing it just got too competitive for me. Most home owners just think everyone is gonna do pretty much the same thing ( even though that's far from the truth ) so it comes down to price. But after all that has transpired and the water starts pouring in to their largest investment it's quite a different story. Now a specialist is in fact very much desired and preferred. Price is near the bottom of the list, partly because we're not talking about near as much expense as a new roof and partly because they've already experienced cheap and now want to be sure it's done right.

Lefty and Chuck called it. IMO The wall flashing drip edge detail is another contender or part of the combination. This a common problem here Deep Down In Florida Where The Sun Shines Damn Near Every Day

B) :) :) B) Deep Down In Florida Where The Sun Shines Damn Near Every Day

The end of the valley would be my first look. The way it ends does not look right. That course of shingles comes in a little high. There needs to be something done to extend that valley past the drip edge and fascia. There is probably a little hole right at the end of the fascia that when water wicks back at the end of the valley it comes in. If the shingle course fell out 1" lower they may have never been a problem.

There is also a nail pop about 2' to the left of the leak. This probably showed up just recently and is not a part of the problem just yet.

Could not see the rest of the valley. The actual entrance of the water into the roof system may be above the actual entrance at the place I offered above. Could also be the ridge cap. A look at the inside of the roof deck will help track the flow of water. Start with the obvious.

The flashing where the barge rafter meets the roof should have extended further in the direction of the valley.

Looks like a leak to me instead of condensation but I'm not accustomed to northern climates. You have a large amount of water coming out of that valley during the heavy down pours and the mold spot is right under that. It probably only leaks just a little during only the hardest rains. It doesn't take much to create a leak with that amount of water running over one area. The water will reach places it normally doesn't. If the water reaches just one nail head you got a leak. You might not see it dripping from inside the garage but if you were up in the attic space during a hard rain you would probably see it drip down onto the sheet rock. Get up there with a nail bar and see if you find any rusted out nail heads. If they placed even one nail too close to one of the key way slots it would be easy for that large stream of water to reach it. If that's what is going on it's gonna get worse because the water eats away at the nail stem a little more each time until ultimately it creates a nice route into your garage.

That's the only part of the equation I'm fairly certain of. LOL

Look's to me like they did it wrong.

:cheer:

Well Hot-Diggity, let's give the Advisory Staff something to sink their collective wits into.

As dad might say in times like this, if we could just find another quarter of a wit, we might be half-wits.

LOL

Mike H - You say that the black mouldy spot seems to get bigger every year and this has gone on for 14 years without ever seeing a visible drip.

Question: Is the garage heated or does it have heat escaping into it when it is cold outside?

If it is, my first guess would be that you are missing a piece of insulation over the black mouldy spot. Have come across this many times over the years where the cause of the black spot was where the insulation was missing, thin or some critter had got into the attic and disturbed something. Most times this was an area that was close to an exterior wall or a base of a valley or some hard to get area where the insulators could not place a bat in properly.

What happens in a situation like this is that you get a cold spot on the drywall or plywood ceiling and in the cold weather this area attracts moisture from the warm air inside the building. The surface becomes damp and attracts dirt particles from the air and they stick in this area. Over time it will look like black mould spots or mildew.

A lot of the houses built around hear had the 8" x 16" screened vents in the soffits and the insulators used to pull back the bat of insulation in this area to allow air flow into the attic. By doing this it would expose the drywall and vapour barrier in the attic and inside the house you would have a square spot of "black mouldy" drywall on the ceiling. This sometimes took years to appear depending on the interior air conditions of the home. Was more common to see in bedrooms where the air was circulating less and on the North slope of the roof. Have even seen places where blown in insulation has been blown back from wind coming in the soffit vents and exposing the ceiling drywall in the attic.

Just a random thought you might consider before you call in the yahoos with the Black mammy stuck to the pieces of broken pallet. They also tend to pee in the flower gardens also. Maybe put up an electric fence to protect the wife's flowers and vegetable garden.

Egg,

I am only 7 hours from Mike. So I have the tools and equipment covered. I only have 2 different kinds of pry bars though and I use wooden handled 16oz. straight claw hammers.

The Black Mammy is the first thing that will get loaded. Do you use a glove or trowel?