Production & pay rates for shingling

What's your experience in your area? I know from past posts "piece work" is forgein to alot of you. But surely, some places other than the west, utilize pc wk?

I've experienced much less production rates than that of years past....I'm going back 20yrs....up to 6/12....A shingler would typically do 12 - 20 sqs/day....I can remember on Davis-Bacon jobs a roofer was expected to do 16 sqs/day. I worked on re-roofing project on an AFB once, as a roofer, where they paid us for 8hrs, once we had 12 sqs. on....Most of us were off by noon....Today, it's rare to get a shingler who can do 8 sqs/day! Most are 5-6 SQS!....It's painful to watch them work.

As for pay...In 92', in a particualr part of the country, I was paying $10/sq for comp up to 6/12....Today the rate is $15/sq....(should be $30+).

These days, where we're at, I've been paying $25/sq.....Now, it seems to me, if a guy puts on 12-16sqs/day, which isn't really that difficult; That's darn good money....($300-$400day)....basically a $78,000 - $104,000/yr salary rate, depending on his work ethic. What an opportunity! At how many professions can you jump off the turnip truck, and in a few days be making a viable living?

Good stories. I enjoyed them.

I'm good for about one square an hour and my work looks like crap. That's why I use subs.

We always paid our guys the same....a sq is a sq....But that was back in the early 80's....Haven't used any metric's since leaving Ca. in 92'.

I discounted our rate when we went to the metric shingle and started putting on 12 less shingles per square.

Right on. I have said many time it is not how many you install in an hour or a day or a week or a month. Work for a year and then divide how many squares you installed by the number of hours you worked. That would be an accurate figure.

Not too much BUR goes down anymore either. EPDM and the modifieds and lately the TPO's have taken over most of that market. It is still hard to beat a properly installed coal tar roof for longevity, but not fun to install or tear off. If you understand water, you can do most any type of system, and as far as I am concerned, it is all roofing. I still think it is fun to watch someone who is really good at what they do for a living "perform" I don't care if it is plastering, concrrete finishing, roofing or carpentry, a real pro makes it look so easy that you could swear you could do it yourself, until you grab the trowel or the hatchet and start to work. At that time, it becomnes a whole nother ballgame.!!

I started with BUR and Tin. Commercial and Resi. Best I ever bothered to get times shingling was 5-1/2 sq. an hour, after I had laid the bundles where I wanted them, tabs turned towards me, of course.

Thoguh I could do fairly fast, I was the detail man at every Co. I ever worked at, and I still am as a self-employeed slave. Besides, why bother to see how many I can do in hurry? I can make much more doing detail work which is often easier physically, if much more demanding mentally. Some of my 1/2 to 3 square jobs can take a week or two, with all the carpentry. Simple ones can take 2-3 days sometimes.

Same here tico....BUR is where I cut my teeth....shingling was for "side-jobs"....

Are shinglers roofers or just shinglers? I was brought up kicking 90 slinging A mop and such. Then one day they brought out these funny things, 3 foot x 12 inches, a lot easier, yes, yet isn't roofing A ade with well rounded qualities at all phases?

6/12 & under?

i can hand bang 10-12sq a day. like old school said, the new lads can't hand bang, if the compressor craps out they can't work. piece work around here as an installer is at 32 sq.

Right O'....

"Who amoung us is training the next generation? If all we do is bitch or brag, we are the problem. If on the other hand, if all the "trainees" want is more money for less work, hey let them pack sand! JMHO"

Man is that a true summary or what?

Tritown, I wasn't bragging and I am not saying that it could be done consistently, especially on the things that they are building today, but those things I wrote about, I either did or saw done personally. The shingles are straight, the flashing is done correctly, and the fasteners are where they are supposed to be. Look at the pictues on my post of "Old school can still put them down" and you will know what they looked like. Straight and properly installed.

It just seems that most of the "roofers" of today are wasting a lot of energy and motions and getting less done per man hour worked, with more modern equipment. Like tom says, that is the way it has always seemed. Look at some the houses that were built 100 yeats ago with hand tools and take a gander at the woodwork. We have computers now and milling machines and power compound miter saws and we are not that good. There is no training today compared to yesteryear and most of the workers have to re-learn what was commonly known years back. Who amoung us is training the next generation? If all we do is bitch or brag, we are the problem. If on the other hand, if all the "trainees" want is more money for less work, hey let them pack sand! JMHO

tritowm....Your detailed methodoligies are/should be, somewhat of standard practice....I don't necessarilly feel that some are bragging, rather comparing work ethics to yester-year....In speaking with former employees, (now employers), as well as other contractors, it rings true with everyone....Today's "roofer" can't hold a candle to the way things were done "back-in-the-day"....Then again; Isn't that alwasys the case? ;)

The Architectual flavor has changed, for sure since the 60's. A crew that gets used to working on McMansions, can they suddenly get on a 25 sq rancher and become faster? Or do they have a built in amount of HorsePower?

I love to read the braggers about how many squares they do a day. We do over a million sq ft a year and have not one guy who consistently puts on 16 square a day but yet somehow it gets done. There are too many variables. Sure I can see that if you are subbing new builds or something where you were the lowest bidder and you have to have that furious pace in order to make money but the roofs look like shit, they are nailed high, crooked, flashing are a joke, they use roof cement all over the place and etc. You cannot keep that pace for a whole season and if you do I feel sorry for you. We do mostly tear-offs in NY and the going rate for a 2 layer on plywood with a architectural is anywhere from $315 - $400 depending on roof deck, pitch, set-up, detail work, debris removal, etc. We have six man crews who average about 15 sq a day tear-off / re-roof. I, like the other reply am a perfectionist and address everything from cutting in new flashing to the chimney, soffit and roof ventilation, installing baffles, checking kitchen and bathroom exhaust, taking down siding and installing ice shield and new flashing on walls and we seem to do ok and rarely if ever have call backs. There is a saying "pay me now or pay me later" or "you get what you paid for" it could not be more true with some of the hack jobs we see on a daily basis. I seriously do not know how some of these guys sleep at night. A monkey could just slap shingles down and pay no regard to nailing pattern or location. I have seen a few guys that hit em right and are lightening but they slow down and usually are turtles when it comes to grinding in chimney flashing, cutting around protrusions or any other detail work and the guys that can do both and are fast usually end up as management because they excel in everything. Happy roofing to all!