Production & pay rates for shingling

We don't do piece work, or by the square work. At least we don't pay that way.

When we tear off a 40sq roof 1 layer over plywood 5/12 in a day a roof it w/ 7 men and out of there at a decent time, you know your producing like wild. 99% of our jobs are tearoffs and we don't feed shingles unless the grunts have nothing to do, then they will set out piles. Yes we pop lines and nail where we are supposed to.

But you can't spell production on any type of complex roof. You can however go a bitchload faster than somebody who doesn't know what they are doing, and/or do it better. Flashing is just a PITA if its not ideal. Some things take time. My main shingler makes $18/hr which isn't great but we just can't afford any more because we could be doing it ourselves. We also pay him to help load the trucks, tear off, or whatever job I need done next so it evens out. We also pay overtime and for breaks.

As far as hand nailing, him and my foreman were w/ my Dad when they used to hand bang them, and they want the compressor every time! I put on a couple of squares in patch situations by hand and I think it's kind of fun, but my fingers don't always agree! Nor would I want to do it all day every day. It doesn't take that awful long to setup air, unless you've got leaks, or faulty regulator, or slipping belt, or... We normally have lines popped about the time a grunt can get the air out and guns oiled.

Ya make a lot sense there O/S. Seems like I pay a guy just to drag equipment around and then it ends up in everyone's way anyway! :blush:

Humbled...That is being efficient. You make every move count. even on the easy jobs, if it is less than 5 squares, you might just as well hand nail it rather than take the time to set up the air compressor and such. I relate that to about the same thing as the kids now a days using calculators to figure everything out. I can do it in my head a lot faster 95% of the time, but they don't have that option anymore as they haven't been taught. same thing on shingling. Most of them don't know what they don't know, but they THINK that they do. go figure.

In 1996 at the ripe old age of 17 years old, my dad paid us 25 per sq for steep new construction. Everything is a 12/12 and usually cut up.

The sweet spot was 8sq but 12sq was where it was at. We did a 40sq house per day (4 man crew) and each of us averaged 800-1200 per week income.

This was all hand nailed...a new guy would show up with compressor and gun and by the time he got his chit set up, gun oiled, air filled up and got up to start chalking his lines...most of us had a couple square on by then.

Every new job in the morning we drew straws to for which person got which section of the house.

Getting to the job at 6-630 and getting home by 2 or 3 in the evening was really nice.

Natty and Tom, I am not dissing anyone. I would not work on a roof when it is 105. I have worked for a bit on a slate roof when it was in the high 90's and it is not fun. I started to work on roofs with my father when I was just a small boy in the mid 50's. Back then, almost everything was a 4/12 pitch rancher and there was not much re-roofing, because everything was still pretty new. In the 60's we did nothing but new construction and we hand nailed. We did one house in the morning and one in the afternoon. On occasion, we would roof 3 a day with a crew of Dad, 2-3 hired men and us boys. I turned 10 in 1962, and I remember the roof decks going from 1 x lumber to plywood and then to Aspenite and then to OSB. I saw shingles go from 3-1's with 6 nails per shingle to self sealing to laminated shingles. I have worked on shingling for about 55 years now and have personally installed over 100,000 squares I am sure. I have been around the block a few times.

No one today works any harder than we did back then. No one installs more shingles either. Nail guns haven't increased the speed at which they go down, and I believe at the end of the day or the week or however you want to measure it, less shingles are being installed per man hour worked, and the over all quality is less also. We ALWAYS stuck lines and we followed them too. The shingles were straight, and so were the cut out lines. Later on, I laid a lot of shingles with a random setback, but the coursing was straight. It shouldn't make any difference what language the installers are speaking as far as the quality is concerned. Very few of today's roofers have ever been trained, and it seems that very few have EVER read the instructions on the wrappers, because they are almost never followed. What a shame!

As far as production goes, with the laminated shingles, 1 shingle a minute on average will translate to about 8 squares installed at the end of an 8 hour day. That should be easy to do when a person thinks of it that way, but a lot of time is wasted. Think about that.

Are you saying your guys are inept?

Sorry; No bragging intended....Just musing at today's generally, inept workforce.....No "production" work here....all our work is re-roofing customs and commercial.

I don't know if you are bragging about being a production roofer or what. Some of the worst roofing being done today is by production roofers. It has always been that way. A production roofer is not a conscientious roofer.

Old school....sounds like you & I attended the same school....LOL

Yeah...like I said...I'ts painfull to watch them....

Funny? Isn't it? How some of these guys think we're BS'n them on the production? The irony of it, is that the 16 or so sqs you or I'd put on is straighter/more accurate that the 5 - 6 sqs these kids, (or ilegals), would put on!

Last month I was out looking at roofs. A competitor was roofing a house and I stopped to check them out. 7 guys- no one spoke english. It was 2:00pm on a 105 degree Texas day. 32 sq square butt- 6/12- hip valley- chimney and skylights. They already had it tore off and felted and started roofing. 4 ran guns, 2 carried shingles up, and 1 picked up. They all looked like they were about to pass out yet they continued to work. Nothing but careless, sloppy, inconsiderate work. If shingles stuck together, threw them on the ground. Nails crooked, high, all over the place. I was told they finished about 10pm. Insurance job so there was plenty of money to do a great job. That is what makes this so pathetic. It is a typical Texas roof job.

You guys have got to be kidding. What you describe is an outrageous rate. But sadly, most roofers are slap on artists. They only care about how many they can get on in a day. It is the same reason most roofs look like crap.

I usually average 2 hours / square- tear off to clean deck and install start to finish. But I am a perfectionist.

I try and tell you guys it is the gun nailers. they can't do anything unless they have them set up. You see a lot of guys using them, and they set the gun down to set the shingle and then they pick it up and swipe it accross the shingle. they waste a LOT of time trying to set the shingle, and they think they are working hard. I use a stapler, and I almost NEVER set the gun down. With the laminated shingles, there is about 64 shingles to the square. IF a person puts down 1 shingle every minute, at the end of 8 hours, he would have almost 8 squares down. How could you go slower than that if the roof is at all a walker.

The other thing I see is that the "roofers" all want someone to be feeding them shingles. One guy nailing and one guy throwing requires that the "nailer" install at least twice as many shingles as before to make it pay. I believe a lot of them don't. Tow guys working together and installing 16 squares only works out to 8 squares a day per man. Not too big a deal.