Jed's Cowardice M.O.

I received several emails telling me to ignore Jed, that he's a dysfunctional troll. Which I knew. Funny thing about people like Jed, who I've ran across many times in my 30 years in the roofing business. When we bump into each other some day at a roofing convention or other function, he will be as nice as can be and want to make like nothing happened. Fat chance.

That's his M.O. In my RCS searches to learn who he is so we can send him an invitation to the dance, I read many many of the very same personal battles he's had with MACroof, Ciak, jm Clark, etc. Ol' Jed seems to revel in ridicule. What a sad bitter way to go through life.

The sad part is that y'all sit around wondering why this group died. You chalk it up to some technical design flaw built into the new format. That's not it. The downfall of RCS has been a lack of moderation and a lack of self-policing. Remember the old days when some member stepped over the line, numerous people would jump in the middle of his chest about it. Nowadays everyone just sits on their thumbs wondering why the group died as though they had no control over it and no part in it. Wasn't it Abe who said that evil triumphs when good men do nothing? Maybe it was't Abe, and I probably have the words wrong, but the point is that this group has allowed cliquishness to trump right and wrong. As long as someone has good advice to offer that you can use, you are willing to ignore all manner of character flaws. That's shallow - I don't want to associate with that.

My offer of $300 for Jed's identity is retracted. I found out who he is on my own; I will see to it that karma visits him and makes a withdrawl from his bank account

I'll be off on another extended hiatus now, wondering if 6 months from now the group will have learned to self-police or if idiotic cowards like Jed will have been allowed to continue ruining what was once a cool place where spirited debate was allowed, but personal taunts and slander were not.

If you want to whine or comment to me, you'll need to send it to: adams@door.net Oh gee what a novel concept, someone willing to take responsibility for their comments and not cowardly hide behind the safety of anonymity.

Well they did step in when one guy called another guy a rump ranger.

jimAKAblue Said: go to any bookstore and buy First, Break all the Rules. If you read this book, you will learn about how the best managers manage. To glean this information, the author interviewed 50,000 of the most successful managers to learn how they think.

That some serious dedication to a book for sure. I reckon if my math's right, the author, if he interviewed 1 manager every 15 minutes for 8 hours a day, 5 days a week, for 6 years.......... not to mention the time invested in notes, review, compilation, digestion and finally authorship, half the guys he interviewed must have died by the time he finished the book.

jimAKAblue Said:

twill59 Said: But jim does not have any employees.....

Look fellas, we are pretty grizzled old bunch in here. Wahtever you are selling, come clean or head to a forum of newbies where you can get a WOW factor from the young turks & paper contractors.

Or better yet, buy an ad :S

Twill59, Im glad you are a grizzled old bunch in here....but Im not sure why that matters. And Im also not sure what Im selling. If you want to buy something, let me know...Ill sell it to you. Im not too proud to make a buck on anything nowadays and if you knew my finances, youd certainly know I need it LOL.

One suggestion though...if you are interested in participating in an open and thriving forum, you might refrain from telling newcomers (people like me) to head to (another) forum.

Actually, Im somewhat fascinated that you are so fascinated by my decision to operate a business with subcontractors rather than employees. This certainly isnt the thread for that discussion but if you want to have a meaningful discussion about the merits of either choice, open a new thread. Im kind of an open book and Id love to discuss that.

We are all interested in hearing the news about legal sub-contracting arrangements. They are so few and far between :) The sub contracting arrangement where the whole crew gets 1099'd right down to the high school kid humping shingles, whilst one minimal "liability policy" of some sort has been presented as "proof of insurance" is an old song and dance story. Don't need to hear it again.

Once again EGG proves what a class guy he is by starting the clean thread. But there's just something about titling something 'vile' that compels me to think that's the thread I belong.

As a niche roofer, my specialty isn't discussed much here. I enjoy learning about the other kinds of roofing. But it also affords a look into the personalities of the contributors. Call it my soap opera, if you will. And in that aspect this thread is, in soap opera announcer lingo, "An Episode You'll never Forget." Not much in the way of roofing info, but almost every post revealed something about the makeup of that person.

As to Jim/Stephen, I apolgise for any hostility you may have percieved. From the soap opera angle, I'm more fascinated by your relationship than ever. Just review the way you guys address each other in this thread. It's hard for me to imagine two straight guys, not trying to sell something, that are gushing praise and inside nudges at each other the way you guys do. I will stay tuned.

Started you a new one, Blue and just to put an end to what you properly refer to as a vile thread (though it was not entirely vile) I will go on record as stating Jed is most certainly not a coward. I'm sure we all know that.

Stephen Said: Jim, you and I have had too many conversations in the last 10 years or so to fully review for the benefit of THIS thread however, I imagine you remember our respective positions regaurding negotiating or prospective customers that want to Haggle ?

Anyhow- something I learned from you in those discussions recently made me $2400 that I wouldnt have had any other way.

Btw- things I learned from you regaurding hiring- continue to pay dividends.

Best wishes all, stephen

Stephen, I know you have graciously credited me for the hiring tip. Lets set the record straight though...it really wasn't me....it was the book I recommended called "First, Break All the Rules".

For those that think we are selling something...yes, we often talk about the need to continue our education through self study. So, here the big sell job......go to any bookstore and buy "First, Break all the Rules". If you read this book, you will learn about how the best managers manage. To glean this information, the author interviewed 50,000 of the most successful managers to learn how they think.

The interesting thing about Stephen's particular situation was that he did not agree with the basic assumption that the book promulgated....until he tried it. He then did a 180 degree turn and has credited me with his new found knowledge but he's really being too kind. It was never about me....I just got him to read a really good book about managing people.

I'd also suggest "Don't Shoot the Horse" if you are into learning about teaching, coaching or management.

Back to our conversation Stephen...I can only guess that somehow you decided to add some layer of negotiation or choices into your sales presentation. I know that you stated that you were opposed to any form of negotiating and that "my price is my price". I've very interested now to learn what you have did differently. My main interest is because I'm sure that you will leave me a nugget....even though I'm negotiating fool....sometimes.

Now I'm intrigued. Is it worth opening a new topic or can you just spit it out here in this vile thread?

twill59 Said: But jim does not have any employees.....

Look fellas, we are pretty grizzled old bunch in here. Wahtever you are selling, come clean or head to a forum of newbies where you can get a WOW factor from the young turks & paper contractors.

Or better yet, buy an ad :S

Twill59, I'm glad you are a grizzled old "bunch" in here....but I'm not sure why that matters. And I'm also not sure what I'm selling. If you want to buy something, let me know...I'll sell it to you. I'm not too proud to make a buck on anything nowadays and if you knew my finances, you'd certainly know I need it LOL.

One suggestion though...if you are interested in participating in an open and thriving forum, you might refrain from telling newcomers (people like me) to "head to (another) forum.

Actually, I'm somewhat fascinated that you are so fascinated by my decision to operate a business with subcontractors rather than employees. This certainly isn't the thread for that discussion but if you want to have a meaningful discussion about the merits of either choice, open a new thread. I'm kind of an open book and I'd love to discuss that.

wywoody Said: We are learning so much from you guys, Jim and Steve. We know youve trading sooo many valuable tips for 10 years that its impossible to narrow down any particular gem and relate it to us unwashed masses. Steve tries to illuminate us, but can only come up with tossing out the terms negotiating and haggle. Of course he has to close it with yet another tease (and self aggrandizing quote) about the vast knowledge you possess, yet are somehow unable to actually share any specific tip with us.

I suppose that if you truly were interested in learning anything from Stephen or I, you'd approach the conversation from a less adversarial manner. I might be wrong here, because sometimes the true intentions of a post aren't properly portrayed, but I get the sense that your post is laced with acrimony and sarcasm...which isn't exactly any technique trumpeted by Dale Carnegie in the book, "How To Win Friends and Influence People."

If you carefully read Stephens last post, you will see that his conversation was directed to me and he wasn't trying to illuminate anyone about anything.

You, along with another "good ole boy" are choosing to disparage a man that I have the utmost respect for. Over the years, he has freely given an amazing amount of great insights offered in the most humble manner. Occasionally, he steps up to the plate and gives someone or something a tiny slap, with no malice intentioned. I've found it helpful to pay attention to much of what Stephen offers but of course, we all are in different places in our work, life and career. Some of it applies to me and my business, some of it can't be of us. Forums are a wonderful thing, if used properly....we take what we want and leave behind what isn't needed.

We are learning so much from you guys, Jim and Steve. We know you've trading sooo many valuable tips for 10 years that it's impossible to narrow down any particular gem and relate it to us unwashed masses. Steve tries to illuminate us, but can only come up with tossing out the terms 'negotiating and haggle'. Of course he has to close it with yet another tease (and self aggrandizing quote) about the vast knowledge you possess, yet are somehow unable to actually share any specific tip with us.

But jim does not have any employees.....

Look fellas, we are pretty grizzled old bunch in here. Wahtever you are selling, come clean or head to a forum of newbies where you can get a WOW factor from the young turks & paper contractors.

Or better yet, buy an ad :S

Jim, you and I have had too many conversations in the last 10 years or so to fully review for the benefit of THIS thread however, I imagine you remember our respective positions regaurding "negotiating" or prospective customers that want to" Haggle" ?

Anyhow- something I learned from you in those discussions recently made me $2400 that I wouldn't have had any other way.

Btw- things I learned from you regaurding hiring- continue to pay dividends.

Best wishes all, stephen

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dW5E0JdQZV4

wywoody Said: Just a little tip on the basics, Jim. Its inept to insult just for the sake of elevating oneself. Sure there are more valuable threads than this one is, think of how much valuable this one would have been had you or Stephen just told us what your valuable advice that had netted him the $2400 was instead of playing tag-team tease and calling us stupid for not biting at what you were dangling. That is how ept(?) people discuss things.

As far as I can tell, neither Stephen, nor I were insulting anyone or anything. We did state our opinion about how we viewed our forum experiences. Nothing personal there. Stephen's opinion regarding the "freakin waste of time" goes back many years and if you were more in tune with the entire message, you would have understood his point, which I agree with.

I would be glad to tell you more about Stephen's experience earning an extra 2400 but I don't know what it is. I specifically have asked him and I'm sure he will be gracious enough to further the discussion, if he sees fit. I know that he often stays away from the forums for extended periods so it wouldn't surprise me if he doesn't respond with an answer for a week, or maybe a month. Maybe more...this is getting into his work season. He only works about 7 months a year so sometimes, he doesn't show up on sites like this. I, on the other hand, check in daily because I don't work much out in the field anymore.

As far as me calling someone stupid....that's not my style at all. I don't think you'll find too many posts by me that will engage in anything personal like that.

Anyways, nice try on the attempt to incite....you might as well know now that I don't play those games.

Just a little tip on the basics, Jim. It's inept to insult just for the sake of elevating oneself. Sure there are more valuable threads than this one is, think of how much valuable this one would have been had you or Stephen just told us what your valuable advice that had netted him the $2400 was instead of playing tag-team tease and calling us stupid for not biting at what you were dangling. That is how ept(?) people discuss things.

wywoody Said:

But if youre not trying to sell us something and Im believing your defense that youre just socially inept, welcome. Youll fit right in.

I guess I won't fit in then since I'm not trying to sell you anything and I'm a very social person.

Of course, some people take offense at anything.

Do you think that 90% of this thread has any value whatsoever? I characterize this thread as a "huge freakin' waste of time". Maybe our values are different. Maybe there is something in here that has redeeming value and I missed it.

Oh, by the way, I think I'm being overly generous when I say that this thread has 10% value.

Wanna go analyze each topic and rate them from my perspective? I'm just here trying to learn everything I can about the roofing business. I don't care about anyone's personal agenda or anything about their social life. If there's some relevant information regarding their personal life that will enhance the information I'm searching for in the roofing business...I'll be thankful to know it. Otherwise, I really don't care, nor do I want to know. I spent ten years participating in the otehr forum...the one you want to keep secret, and I never cared about all the social stuff there either. I can't speak for Stephen for certainty, but I'll bet my last donut that he doesn't care either.

So, I suppose if you want me to categorize my visits as "very stimulating and interesting", maybe we might start discussing the roofing business and trade?