Insur. co. do not care

Here is proof that insurance companies do not care about their clients: http://www.dallasnews.com/news/state/headlines/20140103-state-farm-farmers-allstate-raising-home-insurance-rates.ece

They just raise their rates. If you are unfortunate enough to live within a storm or hail belt, you will probably run into one of the many "insurance claim specialists". Your adjustor and roofing CONtractor will probably be a know-nothing opportunist/carpetbagger and your roofer will be a third world slap on artist.

Catastrophic hail is rare. If a CONtractor offers a "free roof", slam the door in his face. If they install the roof in a day, worry. Take your time and spend your money wisely.

natty Said:

theroofmedic Said: EVERYONE has to understand that your insurance policy is an agreement of shared risk.

I agree with everything you said but this. Insurance under the current system is financiers betting they can collect more in premiums than they pay in claims. Then govt regulations guarantee their profits. So there is little incentive to reduce costs.

Shared risk would be when anyone experienced a damage, we take up a collection.

Hail damage in North Texas is such a grey area and there is such claim abuse that we need a whole new system. Maybe something like a hail damage savings account.

Compare to Obamacare. All Obamacare does is guarantee the profits of insurance companies. It does nothing to reduce costs.

Exactly.

I wish it didn't hail here, it just makes life stressful and unpredictable. You might do $3 million this year, you might do 10. It is awful hard to manage your company size when it is like that. The easy answer is to refuse to do gear up after hail, but the reality is that if you have a lot of roofs out there, you better gear up somewhat after a big hail season, or when it's over you will have lost some customers. Customers often won't wait long after grapefruit baseball sized hail.

The stormies are getting better and better at the game, and making it more and more difficult to differentiate the stormies from those who have been servicing the area for decades. When hail season gets here, I try to caution customers to ask the roofer they're thinking about using, for local roofs that are at least as old as the guarantee he is offering. Secondly, look at his website and see if his "locations" are, coincidently, in some of the large cities that got hail in the last few years. At the very least, ask if he has a Texas drivers license.

theroofmedic Said: EVERYONE has to understand that your insurance policy is an agreement of shared risk.

I agree with everything you said but this. Insurance under the current system is financiers betting they can collect more in premiums than they pay in claims. Then govt regulations guarantee their profits. So there is little incentive to reduce costs.

Shared risk would be when anyone experienced a damage, we take up a collection.

Hail damage in North Texas is such a grey area and there is such claim abuse that we need a whole new system. Maybe something like a hail damage savings account.

Compare to Obamacare. All Obamacare does is guarantee the profits of insurance companies. It does nothing to reduce costs.

One of these days I'm going to write "The Rest of The Story" as it relates to Haag's hail impact testing model, which I think is junk science, but which is heavily used by the insurance industry to deny claims.

Seen-it, I have seen adjusters overpay. Primarily due to inexperience I think. But very rarely, just as you said.

I don't know how many insurance companies still pay their agents an annual bonus if their loss ratio was healthy, but that always seemed like a conflict to me. It may not even be legal anymore.

Suffice that independent adjusters who are not careful with the insurer's money, don't get more work from them. Careful doesn't just mean denying legit claims, but likely means finding a good balance between claim amounts paid and dissatisfied customers.

I stood on strip center roof with a Travelers adjuster in Colleyville last year who was the biggest jackass I'd ever ran across. Very aggressive right from the start, denied there was hail in spite of the swath report I gave him that showed 2" hail at that address, and more than 50 hard impacts per SQR. When that effort failed, he tried to blame the damage on an inferior installation. Ok, I'd had enough and things heated up markedly between us. He then made the bonehead move of ridiculing the building owner who is a mechanical engineer and was on the roof with me, and the agent. I said "Ok, the agent just came up, lets get his opinion." The adjuster sarcastically said "Oh sure, an agent has a lot of hail adjusting experience, lets just use him."

The adjuster was fired from the job and told to never set foot on the property again.

There are bad ones out there.

Anyhow........... I remember seeing a investigative documentary about 15 or 20 years ago about the method that insurance companies use to settle claims.

If you had 100 claims to settle it went as follows:

Basically the bottom line was that they lowball everybody and 65% of the claims accepted that offer. They then make some minor concessions and another 25% of the original amount accept so they are left with 10% of the original claims.

Of the 10 claims left, the insurance company would fight these, tooth and nail, to the point of financially breaking some of them and actually settling the claim for less than the initial lowball offer and others they will finally settle for a meager increase to avoid going to court.

The report claimed that only about 5% of claims were settled for actual loss involved.

The thing I found most interesting was that there was a 1% that received more than actual loss involved. This was the person that was able to hold out to the end and they had to sign a confidentiality agreement not to disclose their actual payout. The report said a lot of these 1% people were later used in the companies future advertising campaigns showing how they treated the people they insured.

I don't know if these statistics hold true for today but it changed my whole outlook on the insurance industry and how they settle claims.

I'm a firm believer that nobody gets to demand respect. Everyone is due a default level of common courtesy, but professional respect is earned, not demanded.

That said, everyone on RCS has a certain degree of respect for each other even though we differ on which system is best, which insulation, which roofing regulations are good, etc. We are all are roofers, we've all paid our dues, most of us have gray hair and bad backs and bad knees to show for it.

What does not usually go on in RCS is someone with limited (or at least unproven) experience, who waltzes in claiming the virtues of all his classroom education and how he thinks that puts him on equal footing in the experience department. It doesn't, but more importantly that pissing match is not one that often happens here in RCS. It's silly.

I am not anti-roofing education. I have more of it than you know because there is no reason to rub it in anyone's faces at every juncture. I have other professional licenses that required time, dedication, money, and a degree of ability to accomplish. You will only hear about them if they're germane to the discussion, e.g., if someone brings up airplanes on a treadmill, it may come up that I got my pilots license in 1985. I don't use any professional certifications or licenses to beat people up or to achieve parity with them.

And it is annoying when someone does.

CIAK Said: Being in both your positions as a roofing contractor and property adjuster for many years now. I have been following your comments with interest. Most of what is coming forth has a veiled ego centered self promotion chest pounding from two competitors. Most of the facts out side the bravado and chest beating have been good for the most part correct. Believe me I toned down my conversation about much of what your presenting. I could write thousands of words about this, but I dont really want to today. Peoples positions on this subject are set in so hard that it doesnt really matter what facts you put before them. Your comments IMO would be better served if you could stop punching each other. Nuff said. B) :) :) B) Deep Down In Florida Where The Sun Shines Damn Near Every Day

Fair enough, but what you can't see is the history Nick and I have. It goes back a ways. Secondly, I dislike when relative newbies hold themselves out as grizzled old line roofers. I climbed too many ladders, sprayed too many millions of SQRS, and sold too many roofs to have Nick portray that his experience and mine are about the same.

I'm not that hard to get along with. I haven't had one of these personal battles here in years, since the TH days. But some folks confuse meekness with weakness, and I will defend myself if attacked.

How is this taken in another context: To me, merrily having an adjuster license for a "parchment" is just a waste of time and money.

Even if you truly believe that Nick (and I doubt you do), it is a highly classless thing to say to any person. And then you claim the high ground???

Either you think the people reading your posts are stupid, or you think I'm stupid, or your writing skills need work. I don't think it's the latter. I think you think that you are so slick that you can say whatever you want then backpedal from it later when it's expedient.

Nick your tactics are more and more transparent. You subtly knock me, then ladle on the praise as though to make the point that you're the only reasonable part of the discussion. If you're so appreciative of what my dad did for you, you wouldn't have treated him the way you did - your praise of him was nothing but syrupy distraction.

Again, you must think the people reading these series of posts are hapless dopey roofers if you think they don't see through what you're doing. It probably helps that I know the history of our dealings so I go in with my eyes wide open when I see your name. That said, I swallowed my pride ands made a valiant effort to get along with you, primarily because my attorney says it will cost 50 grand to sue you and defend a counter-suit, and I have better uses for that money. And as soon as I do chill out you set about, in a not so thinly-veiled way, to discredit every damn thing I do.

I don't know if you taunt me for fun, or if you're pissed that I just took a 140,000 sq. ft. job from you. I am a reasonable man, but I am also a prideful man. You keep poking us and I'll write that check.

Being in both your positions as a roofing contractor and property adjuster for many years now. I have been following your comments with interest. Most of what is coming forth has a veiled ego centered self promotion chest pounding from two competitors. Most of the facts out side the bravado and chest beating have been good for the most part correct. Believe me I toned down my conversation about much of what your presenting. I could write thousands of words about this, but I don't really want to today. People's positions on this subject are set in so hard that it doesn't really matter what facts you put before them. Your comments IMO would be better served if you could stop punching each other. Nuff said. B) :) :) B) Deep Down In Florida Where The Sun Shines Damn Near Every Day

Tim- WOW! No pissing match on my side. I think you are REALLY taking things out of context. I thought we were just discussing some topics and now you're insulting and even threatening me? I don't think I have "challenged" your level of experience (I don't even know what that means anyway) nor have I purposely tried to discredit your countless accomplishments; there is no need for that.

In fact, I am very grateful for what your dad taught me. It has pole-vaulted my career, I was able to sell my business, move into insurance adjusting & thermal imaging, plus have a less stressful life. I have time to work on my website that helps property owners find good and honest roofers in DFW, (Look for Google AdSense on it soon), writing my books, working on my videos and other ventures. So let your dad know I how much I appreciate his help and training, (even though I thought he was crazy to get on some of those high roofs with me). Meeting your family, while challenging at times was one of the best things that happened to me, so easy Tim and take care!

I took no offense, just setting you straight on some things you misunderstand. And pointing out that the restrictions are as treacherous for you as they are to me, if not more so.

Not that it matters, but it was my understanding that you're entire roofing experience spans less than 10 years. I guess it depends on what "experience" means. If you count lugging shingle bundles to roofs for my dad in the 5th grade, I have 42 years experience, but I don't count that as roofing experience. I have 33 years experience (34 now that it's 2014) doing essentially the same thing I'm doing today.

I don't want to get in a pissing match about experience, but you shouldn't constantly attempt to discredit those those who have paid their roofing dues, in order to earn credibility for yourself. I mention my thermal imager, you say it's inadequate. I mention my infrared training, you say it's inadequate. I mention getting an adjuster's license, you say it's a waste of time and money. Then you suggest that it is now illegal for me to do what I've been doing for a living since you were learning multiplication tables in the 3rd grade. I don't know why you feel so challenged by those who have more experience than you. I don't feel challenged by those with more experience than me, I try to learn from them.

If you spoil for a fight long enough, you will get one. And you'll lose.

I apologize if you took offense at my warning about getting your adjusters license with the new law and the conflict of interest with adjusting on roofs you are selling. I was just trying to give you a heads up on the new law. (apparently according to your last post "Adjusters & Roofers- and the Law" you are rethinking my warning)

While I appreciate your 33 years of your roofing experience, there may be room for those of us who may only have a couple of decades under our belt. We all have to start somewhere... as you are currently starting your learning curve with foam. The good news by the time I reach your age I will have that much more experience. ;)

I had an orange belt student walk into my dojo one evening and propose to tell me that he knew a better way to do a sidekick than what I was doing. I glanced at all the trophies standing in the storefront windows, chuckled, and went back to what I was doing.

It is accurate, I quoted the exact statute. Better brush up on it lest you get yourself in a bind because you are in a roof-related business. Live by the sword, die by the sword - that adjusters license also brings with it many serious restrictions.

As for understanding policy, I've been doing this a long time and understand policy as it relates to roof claims. I don't care about smoke damage, floods, and waterline breakage or inland Marine.

You have to sell what you have, I get that. If you don't have a lot of experience, you have to sell a lot of parchment; I get that. If you can convince a building owner that it's best to use a salesman that doesn't have his own equipment and crew, that's great. But you will lose some jobs/customers because of that. Building owners don't want a complicated chain of command and responsibility. They know they can deal with me and me alone, through the entire process, and if he has a leak at 10pm on Friday night, he can call me at home and myself or a crewmember will be there to take care of it.

All of this, though, is salesmanship on both parts. What I do has worked for me for over 3 decades, and if what you do works for you, that is what you should do.

That is not necessarily accurate, It depends- I have an adjusters license to be an adjuster- it also benefits me to know and understand policy, what's covered and what's not, what a insurance company will make a stand on and what they won't and understand the law of each state I work.. To me, merrily having an adjuster license for a "parchment" is just a waste of time and money. But the knowledge that comes with a license, degree or certification can be valuable. For example, some West Texas cities are adopting the IBC that requires that any decking that is compromised must be replaced. This is a challenge for "code up dates" to an insurance claim and must be presented to the insurance adjuster, (they need to be educated). Another example if a contractor, is not aware of this and "restores" a roof, he or she can be liable for a complete roof replacement.

On the flip side when I am not adjusting I sell roofs. The knowledge from training, education, degrees, certifications, plus being a licensed and bonded roofing contractor not only gives the property owner confidence in my ability; it makes the entire process much smoother. I understand and the insurance adjuster's view, the engineer's, policy reference, the property owner's and insurance carrier's interests. Plus, be able to estimate accurately and not just rely on Xactomate.

As you are aware, I just sell, I don't install anymore I refer out to multiple contractors, which gives them the confidence that I am not just another roofing sales guy. I don't have the headaches of actually roofing, running a crew anymore, carrying workman's comp, liability insurance (other than my E&O insurance), etc., but make a commission, everyone is happy and to me it is the best of both worlds!