Conflicts between science and religion

A truley endless debate kan be found here for shure...in either direction..I just wish i could state my feelings from my heart the way egg talks about things.. I aint been here in a while, who we missing??

Pot God or religion , spirit is looking for the " why " is this . Science is trying to figure out the how it all goes together .

egg: [ RE: Conflicts between science and religion ] , Saturday, October 24, 2009 @ 11:20 PM Old School, I hope you are well and staying busy (As you say: doing what others can't or won't, as I do also, and continuing to knock on a little wood as an act of humility and gratitude for the work we have, also as I do.)

You say, "... where did the material come from?" Historically this question has arisen from both the religious and scientific mind, two lines of inquiry that need not necessarily be mutually exclusive, no matter how different they might be from age to age and culture to culture.

I feel a couple of things bear mentioning. Aside from what we have delineated here...

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...we are deeply embroiled in the process of understanding what the material is, not to mention quite indefinite and tentative about where it is or how it is.

Most of what we call 'material,' a rock for example, or a piece of wood, or even a cup full of water, these things that we take such comfort and security in knowing and handling, and bonding with, is comprised almost entirely of empty space. It's not the empty space that is perplexing us and it's not the empty space we are looking to fill.

Or is it? With heart, mind, body, and soul we all carry on. At the risk of offending some people, any people, I freely equate humankind with the starfish by the divine art of analogy. A starfish, battered by the pounding surf, clings tenaciously to his rock and is happy with his connection to this universe. Why is that? Especially when virtually all of his physical body is composed of empty space? I/we are very interested in the material structure of the universe and it remains of great importance to me every single day. But in the end, the material universe, at least as defined by these so-called solid particles we have mapped, is not going to provide a very satisfactory answer by itself. Excepting by way of analogy. Even the frailest human can make thought manifest. I take that as a small example of the 'kind' of power which arranges and rearranges the material universe.

Mister egg...you are truly a deep thinker..it is very enlightening to read your replies to this type of posting....i think you mite have missed your calling....lol

wywoody: [ RE: Conflicts between science and religion ] , Sunday, October 25, 2009 @ 7:56 AM I am a : roofing survivor Suppose you were God. And you had painstakingly created the earth, deposited it with minerals that mankind could use, guided the evolution of the animals and plants and then as your final achievement created man to populate and enjoy your creation.

You want to have a book of guidance for your mankind and since you're all-knowing you (like a magazine editor) already know that as a lowest common denominator, it's best to deliver the message in a 600 to 700 word format. Plus, initially you need to tailor it to a rather uneducated populous. And you, being God, can actually put it into a parable format and deliver two messages in that 600 to 700 words. One, the general order of creation, the other the law of the Sabbath. Amazing efficiency. But to your disappointment mankind uses this to divide and argue among themselves.

The die-hard believers obsess with a literal interpretation of the parable, in doing so denying the hard work of milleniums of your doing carefull, planned creation. The atheists deny you even exist, all the while instead worshipping the very things you created.

God has a right to look down at us and either be angry and disappointed or amused at our folly. I'm hoping he has a sense of humor.

;)

The way I look at it is that if there is a "law" of nature or gravity or whatever, there has to be a "lawgiver" The later had to come first! Go back to the "big bang" What led up to it, and where did the material come from? Interesting!

Me an you are on the same track....OS

What constitutes a God anyway? Did he create the universe? If so where did he come from and what was he before the existence of anything? Did he come into being after the universe was formed? If so how was he created and who did it, would that mean then that there is a being greater than God?

The things accomplished by ancient peoples are amazing (too numerous to list) and would seem to have required a greater knowledge then can be accounted for in thier apparent development, could it be an alien race was here and provided guidence? In that possibility perhaps they needed a labor force that could comprehend thier needs and enhanced natural evolution and in a sense "created" Humanity. Could our God really be a little grey man from a different galaxy? Could it be the alien was a criminal who came here and exploited the population till he was tracked down by his own and punished for interfering with a planets evolution.

bill.......you been watchin to much Star Gate.....lol

There are a lot of people who think they should keep the Ten Commandments because they are under the impression that God will punish them if they don't. But the fact is that God loves us, and we should keep His commandments because we are aware of this.

We need to know that God accepts us as we are. We don't have to do anything to earn His approval. We don't have to do anything to merit His love. In spite of our shortcomings and in spite of our sins, God loves us.

Some people come from homes in which their fathers never expressed love or showed any affection toward them. Therefore, they take that image of their earthly fathers and place it on their Heavenly Father. They spend the rest of their lives trying to earn the approval of God, who already has given His approval to them.

He loves us just as we are. Of course, He doesn't want to leave us that way. He wants to change us so that we become more like Christ. Even then, God loves us when we do well, and He loves us when we fail.

Realizing this should cause us to want to love Him. As 1 John 4:19 says, "We love Him because He first loved us." So instead of wanting to keep God's commandments to earn His love, we should want to keep them because of His love for us. We should want to keep His commandments because we know they are right. It all comes down to our motives.

minnesotaroofin Said: A murdering child rapest on his death bed being forgiven and granted into the kingdom of heaven -- while the peace loving never hurt a fly guy type goes to hell.

If chester truly asks the Lord for forgivness and repents yes he will be forgivin,if the peace lovin guy does not believe and denies the Lord yes he will be in hell,thats also biblical...not me.Us as humans Cannot comprehend the Love of the Lord,it is beyond what we could even think...

2 Timonthy 2:12 "if we endure,we will also reign with Him,if we deny Him,He also will deny us."

minnesotaroofin: Sounds like ya know yer stuff. :)

Like i said it cannot be that way --

So you think God's gonna say "well your sins are too bad so off to hell you go" and then too the next guy "oh your sins werent that bad so off to heaven you go"...I dont think so,its how are hearts are towards Him,if we believe and accept Him He will never leave us,if we deny Him,He denies us,..and thats biblical...not me.

this is also is not right.

A murdering child rapest on his death bed being forgiven and granted into the kingdom of heaven -- while the peace loving never hurt a fly guy type goes to hell.

minnesotaroofin Said: So the analogy of a guy being saved on his deathbed by accepting god or jesus into their heart-- after a lifetime of evil cannot and will not happen This is what i believe.

So you think God's gonna say "well your sins are too bad so off to hell you go" and then too the next guy "oh your sins werent that bad so off to heaven you go"...I dont think so,its how are hearts are towards Him,if we believe and accept Him He will never leave us,if we deny Him,He denies us,..and thats biblical...not me.

So if i understand you,its you cant comprehend the forgiveness in Him when we are truly repentent?

Think about you an your enemy you have hated for long time you both have hatred towards each other one way of resolving this anger between the 2 of you would be to partner in crime therfore your sins are equal to eachother. so you and your enemy met up and sacrificed an innocent together - or maybee even beat up a third party your anger to each would be resolved between the 2 of you.

all you have to do is ask forgivness from your enemy,whether he accepts or not does not matter,you have done your part..and its this kinda stuff that the Lord grows you in,forgivness,patience,courage..an so on...

Lets look at using the Lords name in vain g -- dam -- we do it alot of times just on accident i hate hearing it to be homest. But it is a sin we all sin it is impossible not to -- but think about it what if we accidentally killed someone 1-2 times a day? Really no difference?

So the analogy of a guy being saved on his deathbed by accepting god or jesus into their heart-- after a lifetime of evil cannot and will not happen This is what i believe.

I seen an interview with a guy in prison for murdering a family of people for like $20.00 -- he gos on saying how he found jesus and how much of a better person he is for it and no longer has the thought feelings etc he did when he committed the crime went on to be saved etc... -- In the next sentance he says what he did is no different than stealing candy from a candy store -- A sin is a sin -- Murder is no different than stealing a piece of candy? how does this make sence?

kage Said: If everybody just goes to heaven when we die,answer me this,Why did Jesus have to go to the cross??

Jesus died on our cross for our sins -- as i believe jesus is part of our conscience we are able to deal with our sins after his death on the cross the part of our conscience that died the day of crucifiction -- before this when we got angry / guilt / hunger / lust - it ate us up and the anger never subsided until there was a common sacrifice of an innocent animal therefore everyone participating in the one ultimate sacrifice therefor spreading the guilt / anger amongst the group. Think about you an your enemy you have hated for long time you both have hatred towards each other one way of resolving this anger between the 2 of you would be to partner in crime therfore your sins are equal to eachother. so you and your enemy met up and sacrificed an innocent together - or maybee even beat up a third party your anger to each would be resolved between the 2 of you.

Now we can sin and realize it is a sin justify it or whatever -- this is what we have from jesus being crucified -- we get over it but not forever when we die if our justification is false or a con of our own mind outwardly - we will live with that feeling eternally.

If there is a god who says these people are going to eternally rot in a hell for for being who they are -- he who which he created

They wouldnt be going to hell for who they are if they go to hell it would be for non-believe.

Who they are and what they believe are the same in my opinion

Someone could do this there entire life then in their last breath accept god into their heart and they are saved?

If they get the chance,what if it is a sudden death,no one knows when were gonna go,but if ya wanna take a gamble at it thats your choice...good luck on that...

Did not ask about taking a chance just wanted to ask if true or false and how that makes sence

I am of no denonemation either,just the simple belief in The Lord...

and if and when it is as most say on judgement day i will stand up for these people and if it is judged i go to eternal damnation with these fine catholic people i guess i will.

What makes you think you will have a say on that day

If i am the one being judged than he can judge me for who i am and my beliefs in others- And i am sure if this is the case he will know regardless.

If i am right them sins you are keeping secret between you and Your god now -- Thinking since you came clean with him about your past but not made it right with the people you have harmed here and now -- be prepared.

All them child molestors / murderers /Thieves etc... -- They do have a chance i admit it -- But i do not believe once they tell god they are sorry and allow him into their heart they will be saved from the torment to come in the end unless they make it right now. I believe they know how to make it right and they also know deep down just telling their god they are sorry is not going to save them.