Win The Storm Conference!

Roofguy: No "misconception" - It's how it is plain & simple.

I will however agree with you on your Amarillo analogy - Much the same takes place here in a lot of Colorado municipalities - It is indeed a farce/racket. Makes my case so-to-speak.

Colorado is all about salesmanship. California is all about efficiency/pricing.

CO. has far many more roofers than Ca. Mostly of which are what I refer to as "tin-men" (the old door-to-door siding shysters - much like the "travelers"/driveway coating shenanigan types), & simply put: Naive wannabe's,(as CO. lacks licensing, affording any warm body that so has the notion, to become a "contractor"). The burden in totally on the consumer.

CA. on the other hand, has it's issues as well; The biggest being the underground economy - There is admit-tingly substantial unlicensed activity that goes on. But that's the risk the consumer takes-on at their free will. From a contractor's position, you are generally competing with like peers - The difference from CO. is that they're all licensed, are for the most part, "on-their game", (knowledgeable, know what they're doing & are good at it), so the competition is fierce. Far more so than CO. where it's more of a "sales game".

JM $.02

It was a very clean paraphrase of a very significant and venerable quote. You did good.

While we're on that subject, George Washington, even though he turned down offers to make him exponentially more powerful personally (and in so doing put this country onto its stellar path,) was quite a bit less comfortable with personal freedoms for the general populace than Jefferson was. We couldn't have made it this far without either of them.

twill59 Said: Yes Tim, Paraphrasing Wildly! At least you admit it. Good man. Not too many people have no problem at all putting modern verbage into the mouths of our Founding Fathers.....talking FaceBook here :)

I'm waiting...:-)

More importantly, this is fundamental stuff here and it's alarming to me that so many people do not even grasp the concept of freedom that our Founders wanted for us. Whether one can remember the exact quotes isn't important - you either grasp the concept or you don't.

Here ya go Mr. Twill:

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty, than those attending too small a degree of it. ---Thomas Jefferson

Now, shouldn't you admit that I had it pretty darn close? ;-)

twill59 Said: Yes Tim, Paraphrasing Wildly! At least you admit it. Good man. Not too many people have no problem at all putting modern verbage into the mouths of our Founding Fathers.....talking FaceBook here :)

Don't make me go look it up, I'm busy. :-) One of those old farts said something very similar to that. And, it fits very well with their small government mentality and why they thought it was crucial to accept some risks in the name of freedom.

Yes Tim, "Paraphrasing Wildly"! At least you admit it. Good man. Not too many people have no problem at all putting modern verbage into the mouths of our Founding Fathers.....talking FaceBook here :)

Tom, that is the common misconception. Thru Kold King and our close involvement with roofers in 42 states, I can tell you that there are more fly-by-night roofers (anecdotal evidence from contractor, admittedly) in CA and FL, the 2 states with the strictest regulation of roofing contractors.

I think you have to looker deeper than just simple easy answers. If the above is true, why is it true? I think it's for 2 reasons: 1. An overburdensome licensing atmosphere creates a climate where lowball roofers can thrive on the side. 2. The climate is good, roofers like to be in CA an FL.

More importantly tho is that Texas still, by and large, believes in the freedom-loving concept of Caveat Emptor, rather than having a governing body attempt to remove all risk to the consumer by over regulating contractors.

One example is Amarillo, Tx., a city managed by a former City Manager of Detroit. The city is extremely restrictive of roofers, requiring 1/2 day of filling out forms, Scope of Work Application, etc to get a permit, followed by scheduling and conducting a Pre-Construction Inspection, a Frame Inspection, then a Final Inspection. Most roofers around here simply avoid Amarillo - we are one of the few who are authorized to work there who are not Amarillo-based. So is the result better roofs? Absolutely not! The result is higher prices for roofs and corruption of the inspection department with jobs being approved and failed by whether or not you are friends with an inspector. In my case, the Chief Inspector and I dislike each other intensely, and as a result he has erected obstacles for us at every turn, flunked a final inspection which forced me to demand a meeting with him and the city manager (including a personal letter from the CEO of JoSam drains backing up my opinion). I got the ruling overturned and the inspection passed. Conversely, there are 2 inspectors who I'm friends with, they approve our work without even getting on the roof. It's a racket!

But back to the main point. I think it was Thomas Jefferson who said (paraphrasing wildly): It is better to tend to the pitfalls of too much freedom, than to endure the perils of overregulation.

egg; Its a raunchy way to have to do business, (the insurance restoration game); And it is a game - A nasty/full of unethical/unscrupulous types, as well as a substantial amount of naive types, as it predominantly occurs in states lacking contractor licensing, which adds to the hysteria, (for lack of a better word).

Not to toot my own horn - I've worked for many years in both business environments - By "both" I'm referring to states w/licencing & no hail & states w/o licensing that are subjected to hail.

In the non-lic "hail-belt environments - Simply put; It's a cesspool of seasoned "tin-men" & naive wannabe's. The legitimate businessman has no substantial place in it.

Hostess Snowball-eating twinkie? Ignorant cream-filled cupcake? When I was a kid I used to open up my Roy Rogers lunchbox, take out my whole wheat bread sandwich that was in there every single damn day and drool in envy while my buddies ate those things. When I finally got my own money I ate so many of them, along with those home run pies, that after about a month I was cured of them for the rest of my life.

Honestly, I can't make heads or tails out of what's going on in Texas with regard to insurance claims; all I can say is that it certainly sounds unstable. I've been listening in now for a lot of years and it still doesn't make any sense to me. I happen to be a believer in state contract license laws, but that's just my opinion and I think I also believe that whether or not to enact a license law is a different issue.

natty Said: Here is a story in the Dallas Morning News of a paper contractor taking advantage of the hail racket. This is what it is like to be a roofer in North Texas. It is all too common.

http://www.dallasnews.com/news/watchdog/2017/02/17/watchdog-worst-roofing-scheme-dallas-fort-worth-arlington-house-of-tomorrow-lambcorp-jorge-garcia

Mr. Leiber is a first rate clown! This is Texas where we still believe that it's not the government's job to erect a safe space for every Twinkie-eating snowflake.

Here is a story in the Dallas Morning News of a paper contractor taking advantage of the hail racket. This is what it is like to be a roofer in North Texas. It is all too common.

http://www.dallasnews.com/news/watchdog/2017/02/17/watchdog-worst-roofing-scheme-dallas-fort-worth-arlington-house-of-tomorrow-lambcorp-jorge-garcia

No doubt it's a racket! And the biggest victim is the insured who's been paying premiums for 2 decades, only to be unlucky enough to draw an adjuster who has built his reputation on denying legitimate claims. I'm working with/against one such crooked adjuster right now who has twice denied an obvious claim that even the engineer HE hired agrees they owe to repair. The insured has waited nearly 5 months to get his claim settled.

And now the powerful insurance lobby has made it illegal in Texas for me to represent the insured, as I have been doing for over 3 decades.

So while 2 wrongs don't make a right, if there is no choice between the insured getting screwed or the insured gets too much on a settlement, I want the latter to happen.

Scoundrels!

Ironically, at the conference this week, Haag Engineering was universally disrespected in the industry by roofers and public adjusters alike.

Insurance restoration work is a racket and anybody who claims otherwise is just ignoring the truth because it's in their benefit. Similar to guys who say "I work better high." I've had homeowners give me claims that were higher than what I charge, and yes I've accepted it. I don't see a insurance claim and charge higher than I would charge that homeowner because insurance is paying. However, it is getting tempting to do so.....because it's a racket!

Since insurance restoration work started here in '09 my price has hardly went up at all. On certain style roofs it's even went down. Guys who know how to work the system and have the manpower to call adjusters every day are able to arrive at nearly whatever number they want. Meanwhile small business roofers with work comp'd employees are left wondering why insurance is only paying $11k on a $13k 50sq ranch style house.

Oh, whats that, 13 box vents at the top of that of 2 story 12/12 that's only 32sq? Sorry, no D&R or R&R for you! Oh, now you have to explain to the customer that your billing them for it whether they like it or not, even though you've called Snake Farm 40 times about it. Sorry homeowner, now you have to call them to try to get them to reimburse.

No, Tennessee! :laugh: