Where have all the posters gone?

I guess I am as much to blame as anyone else, but if we don't post topics to talk about, there will be nothing to "talk" about. I am working on a new job right now and I have to get the pictures dumped unto the computer to post them. A big re-side and reroof with new overhangs and new skylights. Should be interesting!

That's the Andy that we all knew!

Andy Said: Ummmm, well . . . I just dont know what to say here . . .

Ive always been just a residential roof guy here in West Michigan. Dont know chopped glass from chopped newspaper . . .

Guess Ill go back to my corner now . . . under a snowdrift . . . :unsure:

I will admit that I took a cue from egg and Mike and just kind of backed out of here for awhile. Hoping that civility and professionalism will rule the day. From what Ive seen on other forums, strident disagreements are best kept in private messages. Gunslinging and internet forums are not compatable nor conclusive.

Gunfights were typically much shorter in duration,and not as painful to watch.

Just my .02

Sorry, wrong Andy.

Ummmm, well . . . I just don't know what to say here . . .

I've always been just a residential roof guy here in West Michigan. Don't know chopped glass from chopped newspaper . . .

Guess I'll go back to my corner now . . . under a snowdrift . . . :unsure:

I will admit that I took a cue from egg and Mike and just kind of backed out of here for awhile. Hoping that civility and professionalism will rule the day. From what I've seen on other forums, strident disagreements are best kept in private messages. Gunslinging and internet forums are not compatable nor conclusive.

Gunfights were typically much shorter in duration,and not as painful to watch.

Just my .02

This is great! Can't you just feel the love around here now?

Mike H Said: Wow, how bout that, Andy?

You answer a post by egg, and get drawn into the fire. Ill be your burnin all over now, arent ya? :laugh:

LOL! Just trying to clear the air here. I figure it's better to address any issues head-on rather than hear 6 months later about a rumor someone heard on some forum somewhere about a problem someone had that may or may not have a simple explanation.

Wow, how 'bout that, Andy?

You answer a post by egg, and get drawn into the fire. I'll be your burnin' all over now, aren't ya? :laugh:

Andy Said: Well, egg, my ears were burning . . . . Im still around . . . just dont have much to say (and thats saying somethin)

Well Andy, I wasn't talking about you either. But if you thought your ears were burning, you might as well go ahead and say whatever bad things you have to say and get it out in the open like everyone else. :)

My understanding was that you found that the price of material for the chopped glass system had gotten too high compared to your cost to do TPO, and that since TPO was a cleaner system, your guys preferred TPO. That's fair criticism. It also may be a regional thing because I can tell you that in most areas I'm familiar with, the cost of installing TPO is higher. And, frankly, you put a lot more work into your roofs than most do - which is good, don't get me wrong - but when you put down 2 plies of poly on every roof, that adds to the cost.

I get asked all the time: Will your rig work on small jobs. And I tell them, yeah it will but that's not what it's designed for. It's designed for larger roofs and I'd wager that if you took 2 identical gravel surfaced 150,000 sq. ft strip shopping center roofs, the emulsion roof will go on at least 4 times faster than TPO. That's our bread and butter, larger roofs.

Well, egg, my ears were burning . . . . I'm still around . . . just don't have much to say (and that's saying somethin')

Im sure that stunts like that end up being blamed on you in many cases.

Man you said a mouthful there!!! One of the biggest drawbacks of the system is that some people think it's a miracle product that eliminates the need for normal roofing principles like qualifying the roof for a retrofit, extensive roof prep, adequate gallons per square, etc. The Conklin Rapid Roof guys had the same problem back in the 70s in that a lot of unqualified installers used it in places it didn't belong.

And of course when it fails it's everyone's fault except the guy who shoved the big wad of money in his pocket on the job.

I cant blame Kold King for guys that just spray and pray.

Hey, I like that (spray and pray). Can I borrow that for my Powerpoint presentation?

Our company is far from perfect; we've made mistakes like everyone does. One of them was selling a rig to "contractors" who had no business with a rig in the early days. We eventually became a lot more selective - you may remember a bitter battle I had here with a garage door contractor in New Mexico whose deposit I sent back because he had no commercial roofing experience. That kind of thing was a source of irritation no end - ya try to do the right thing and turn down a sale that would put $5,000 commission in my pocket, and in return I get beaten over the head by the guy because that somehow makes me unscrupulous??? lol

Oh well, ya live and learn.

Hi Tim,

Thanks for the answer, and no, I was not just being polite. I first saw the rig in Orlando, and spoke to you a while about it at the NRCA show. I was quite intrigued by the system. Later, my wife and I met Dave C. and his wife at a hotel between us, and we spent some time talking about his rig. That visit was specifically because I was wanting to get into a premium spray application, and knew he had purchased a unit. I always respected Dave and we covered a lot of ground that weekend about chopped glass.

The conversation you mentioned did take place, as one of my customers asked me specifically about chopped fiberglass. Since I had never had that happen before, I went straight to the source. It was all in the same time frame that I was studying the various spray systems. That's when I learned about the guys that had the rig.

A lot of thought went into our purchase, and I can't remember if we had bought our poly rig when the unit near us came up for sale, or not, but I appreciated that you gave me first crack at it. All in all, with our focus on membrane systems, I felt that a polymer application offered a better fit in our business model, and had more opportunity for growth in some other areas outside of roofing.

I was fully confident after my conversations with Dave that when done to a certain specification that adjusts for our climate, that the chopped glass was a very good system. I just needed to make a decision based on best fit. The guy near us has proposed to simply spray some asphalt and glass over a very aged, dirty, unprimed EPDM, about 800 squares worth, for a pretty little penny. I can't imagine the profit...... it wasn't the right application and I'm sure that stunts like that end up being blamed on you in many cases. Which is no different that trying to blame Firestone because some schmuck glued .045 over a soaked BUR on wood fiber, using about 1/2 the glue recommended, no angle change details, and just ran the membrane over the edge. Seams? Well, let's just caulk those shut. I had a guy around here that did just that, and offered a "20 year warranty". It's people like him that made Firestone stop issuing membrane warranties unless it was also a system guarantee. You can't blame Firestone for those failed roofs, and I can't blame Kold King for guys that just spray and pray.

Glad you weren't talking about me. Hope all's well in TX.

Mike H Said:

Self-crowned royalty.

Just for the record, if you talking about the only person ever referred to as king around this joint. I did not start that bullcrap, did not appoint myself to anything, and wish it never happened. Playing along does not constitute a self appointment.

Are you including me in that 5 you talk about later? We talked about a rig, but when the opportunity arose, did not do it of my own accord. So if Im in that group, I should be removed. I dont think you were including me, as I dont believe I ever trashed you, just making sure.

No, I was not referring to you. The "self-crowned royalty" is an inside baseball term that will make sense to the one person it was directed to.

And no I wasn't including you in the "5," and frankly I'd forgotten you expressed an interest in a rig. That said, I do remember the conversation just slightly different. You asked if I'd just sold a rig to nearby roofer "R_______ Roofing," and I said yes and thus we could not sell another in the area. You said something to this affect: "Well that's too bad because I was considering a rig." I may not have that exact but that was the jist...and I realize that you may have just been being polite to me in saying that.

The topic was about what happened to all the posters. I used to be fairly active on this group so I felt qualified to offer an opinion. I stand by that opinion still, that the group faltered when personality conflicts erupted into all-out wars, and that led to this group becoming a serious liability to companies to be part of this forum. That was the case with me and I can tell you it was the case for several others as well. Worse yet, it cost Vickie an account that paid her $990 every month thru no fault of her own. At a point it became a liability to have our company name mentioned anywhere on RCS because it would naturally lead to the caustic trashing going on in the forum section. That was too bad because Vickie's ads helped us sell a lot of rigs.

The only thing I can think of that might avoid that kind of thing is to ban personal attacks and unsubstantiated attacks against companies, along with a 3-strikes and you're outta here policy.

Re-visit? I did'nt want to "re-visit" anything, much less you. But you come back here after a severe beating on another forum forced you into hiding, maligning members here with accusations of having a "pack mentality" and "class envy" amongst other things and you expect nobody to respond? These are clearly qualities you see in others because they are only ever present in yourself, as the self serving drivel you serve up goes to show.

"I'm gonna sue him your honor because he said I did a roof and I did'nt"......good grief.

Self-crowned royalty.

Just for the record, if you talking about the only person ever referred to as "king" around this joint. I did not start that bullcrap, did not appoint myself to anything, and wish it never happened. Playing along does not constitute a self appointment.

Are you including me in that 5 you talk about later? We talked about a rig, but when the opportunity arose, did not do it of my own accord. So if I'm in that group, I should be removed. I don't think you were including me, as I don't believe I ever trashed you, just making sure.

Self-crowned royalty.