What is "good enough?"

On the line snapping thread I mentioned this and I think it deserves its own thread.

When you roof, what is your standard for quality, and WHO determines it? Do you lead or do you follow?

Good enough is when I gave the customer the best value I can for the budget they have. Plus a little extra.

For me "good enough" is responding to all phone calls in a timely manner ( preferably when the phone is ringing and not having to call back though this is not always possible ) , meeting with every potential client personally, thoroughly evaluating the problem as in doing my best to forsee all potential problems that might arise and being prepared for such beforehand, coming up with the best solution and setting the job up to be done in that way, listening to their concerns and doing everything in my power to set their minds at ease, matching the brands and colors as best as can be done. Ideally EXACT when possible, Personally performing the work to ensure that what I said would be done gets done and that it gets done the way I said it would and when I said it would., making and keeping all appointments. And when all is finally done I always ask "Is there anything else I can do for you today?"

I could go on and on trying to describe what is "good enough" but basically for me, anything less than the above is "not good enough".  I understand that many companies can not do some of the things above like meeting every client personally or performing the work personally that's just how I roll!   :)

Bump

I suppose good enough would be walking away from a job with no debris in the yard, siding is as clean as when you got there, gutters are clean and operable, Ice and water shield was tucked behind the gutter, Drip edge metal was used, Starters where offset from one another, all the manufacture specs where achieved, no debris left on the roof, plastic strips removed from all of your cuts, ice and water shield sandwiches the valley area and around all penetrations, chimney was not straight but cut in using a riglet and done according to specs in the industry, and last but not least THE OWNER PAYS FOR HIS ROOF ENTIRELY...

I have my own set of standards but over the years I have had to take in to account our foreman's standards. As long as the roof is completed according to the manufacture specs. Why sweat the small stuff that will never get noticed? A good roof that doesn't leak and looks aesthetically pleasing to the homeowner is good enough..

Lanny, Depends where you are I suppose. I would'nt dream of doing a roof without edge metal, and up north you gotta have it for use in conjunction with I+W shield.

Nice John.

Old School said this was good enough ;) :)

johnny5...I am with you on that...The homeowner gets whatever he wants as long as it doesn't hurt the final product. ---I get quite a few that want edge metal down at the gutter. I know they make metal just for that and we have a lot of it at our shop. But I always talk people out of it. It is just a waste of metal in my book and another example of balony. 99% of the roofs we tear off don't have it so why do we need it now? Lanny

Good points lanny I adhere to a system for "boilerplate residential". We always install roofing the same way. We use the upgraded products much like you described, as needed. I will never disagree,however, with a homeowner about an upgrade he wants after I have explained why I think he doesn't need it.

All very valid points. I strive to strengthen the "weakest link"

---Some good lists to compare to. ---I am always finding roofing salesmen who try and upgrade the specs to sell quality and gain an edge on the competition. ---One company hand nails all their comp. I say, fine and you pay a premium for it. I can handnail also...no big deal to me. And one advertised "hot dipped" galv. nails not EG galv nails. Quality counts, huh? ---Another uses 30# instead of 15 lb felt. In my opinion it only upgrades the price. Why change the manuf. specs? Unless there is a compelling reason (low slope or another) 30# is just a waste of money. ---Another uses 6 nails not just the skimpy 4 that the manuf. calls for. Hey why not use 20 nails? Unless it is a high wind area you are paying for "quality" that is not going to add one iota of real quality to the job. ---Another uses leads instead of neoprene pipe flashings. I suppose it is comforting to know that the flashings will outlast the roof. Perhaps they can save money by reusing them when it comes to a reroof? We use leads on 50 year shingles but why on 30 year shingles? ---You could use copper nails too...You could use 24 gauge flashings or 22 gauge...heck why not 2 gauge?...Why not gold plate the rim on your spare tire? Who cares if no one will ever see it in your trunk? I mean quality counts, doesn't it? Who wants something less? ---I have told people the 2 most important things in roofing are the material you choose, wood, metal, comp, tile, 30 year, 50 year...and the person who installs it. A roof is not a piece of oak furniture. From the ground few can see that things are not 100% straight. 98% straight is good enough in my book. Oak furniture has an asthetic value. While a roof should be attractive you still view it from a distance. ---The point that many cannot even remember what color their roof is only illustrates that people are not looking that closely at the finer details of a roof installation. It is fine to take pride in one's work. And sloppy work should not be allowed by a respectable company. Sloppy appearance means sloppy details means leaks... ---I think it is important to major in important things not major in the minors. They used 30# felt but put 4x4 metal behind the skylights. The skylights leaked. ---Quality varies depending on the product. A 50 year roof demands an upgrade in all the other componants. A 50 year metal roof with cheesy single ply built up gutters? So in about 15-20 years the 50 year roof will be worth what when the gutters have to be replaced? ---I see lots of gimics. Lanny

Woody, it is often the things that we do even if no one is looking that make the difference. Well done!

I have developed my system over the years. It amounts to a many small things I do differently. I run a vertical chalkline to make sure the tile is laid square, even on shake tile. I make an extra miter cut on the trim where it meets at the top of a hip. Even though tile specs allow a variety of flashing options, I always go with the option that keeps water above the tile even though most are more labor intensive. I blend the tile while loading and never have color blotches. I was using antiponding metal on almost all jobs for 10 years before it was required. I use 6v valley, while most competitors use 5v or single v. My underlayment upgrades are different than my competitors. I clean all cutting dust stains off the tile.............

I rarely even tell potential customers of these differences, I just do them because they are MY standards.

We have all seen roofs where they "racked" the shingles straight up the roof with a 6" offset and never bothrered to strike any lines. It is not uncommon to look down the rows and see a 2 to 4 inch "wah wah" in the rows. Even if they pull a line at the top to straighten them out so they look straight from the ground, this would not be acceptable to me. I like to see the rows all be parrallel to each other and there is no reason in my mind that there should be more than a 1/4" deflection from straight on anything.

When nailing or stapling, even on the Certain Teed shingles where they have the "wide track" I like to see the fasteners evenly spaced across the whole length of the shingle and within the "small" lines that they "recomend" for best performance. Nails should be driven "flat" and not cutting into the shingle. The bottom shingle should overhang the drip edge about 3/8 to 1/2" That would be "good enough" for us!

Good enough... is when you deliver to your customer's expectation. The trick to to make sure you and your customer have the same expectation.