Venting. Cold Attics

Whew. A dissertation. Twill speaks.

I find this to be a troublesome topic. Most homeowners just want the water kept out. Until there is an issue of course. (and damn the Utility bill! I own the stock!)

Research and Solutions abound. Common sense principles and modern products allow for improvements.

Ramblin' on.

I've seen unvented/ minimally homes do just fine and the shingles last a long time. By minimal I mean poor intake usually. Most every house has some number of exhaust vents. Yet when problems appear, I know right where to start looking.

My experience: I have seen the results of poor ventilation vary greatly from building to building. I have also seen excellent ventilation perform flawlessly in every instance.

The kicker, and I mean the tie breaker, I mean what puts a weak system into Mold, Ice Dam, damaged decking and of course higher utility bills ( But I own Utility Stock!) territory, is ........heat loss. If the insulation level is low or the ceiling is showing, there are gaps where heat and moisture escape, the damage piles up.

So while the architects will continue to ignore, the builders will talk, construction workers will keep damaging (can't see it from my house!) and roofers will try to keep the water out, I'll keep scratching my head.

The homeowners of course are about the same: They want to hear about standing seam AG panels(?????), Lifetime shingles (LOL), Ridge vent (unvented of course!), Ice & Water Shield (tons of it)and FREE ROOFS ( That's the truth).

Somehow I am able to avoid dishonesty, while shooting myself in the foot at the same time.

As Morrissey sang, "Maybe in the next world, maybe in the next world"

Stuff you find:

Our bill was about $25k. I was going to bid it to tearoff the tar & gravel and install 1.5" ISO and a TPO system, but they wanted shingles. Luckily, they've had a highly skilled home remodeler at their house since January and he told them this was the best route. He called us, they listened. Great folks who care about their house, which was nice, but is a lot nicer now and more energy effecient.

Natty: There are many times I don't even get a return phone call :) That's what you get for being the bearer of bad news.

Sometimes i wonder about that too natty. But then add in ALL of the costs like tearing the house down re building, moving, storage. And IF they aren't major shareholders with the local utility, they can at least start to see a return on their investment.

We just "rehabbed" a shack this spring. House Probably did not cost $20000 new. When we were done......our bill was over $28k. If she would not have done all of the work and simply done the stormchaser / hack thing (shingles off/ shingles back on), she would still have had an almost unsellable shack. Now she should be able to sell her place for $80000....... or more.

So she did quite alright on the deal. Not too expensive after all B)

twill and clover, How did you convince the property owners to go for all of that work? The cost must have come close to being what the property was worth.

Yea. They had a 2.5/12 pitch with tar & gravel. No moisture problems on this inside though. We used 2x8 rafters so we could set the birdsmouth directly on the plate and still have room for air to flow over new insulation. All rafters were screwed together. 5/8" decking.

It was a nice change of pace from the normal tearoff & replace. I normally get shamed & ran off for bringing up wild ideas about "proper" ventilation.

New rafters clover?

www.garydcloverroofing.com/images/2.jpghttp://www.garydcloverroofing.com/images/4.jpghttp://www.garydcloverroofing.com/images/6.jpg

PHOTOS BY CLOVER

My job this week is on topic...

(Edited by Vickie - See photo's in next frame.)

It pains me to see the crap they get away with here in NM.on residential, it is pathetic, stucco stop,reglet,step shingles,counter-flashing or proper pan metal on tile roofs are non-existent here,its sad but it creates a lot of repair work for the same guys that installed it wrong in the first place.

"Building science is a growing discipline. The data is there but few are skilled enough to implement it. It all comes down to giving a care"

So true. It is so odd that so few care in their chosen careers.

true story- A couple of months ago I was out and about so I stopped at a mcmansion being built in frisco, tx. They were just starting to put up sheetrock. They had foamed all of the walls and attic. Building science says this is the way to go- but I don't know about living in a refrigerator. Anyway, what amazed me was what gets covered up in the process. The roof was absolutely hideous- the cheapest tamko laminates w/ 3tab hips- slapped on and crooked. The metal edge and flashing detail was just pitiful. The outside walls were covered in styrofoam sheets and taped- children could have done a better job. Several of the window flanges were cracked. Brick ties were hanging with bent nails. If I was in charge, they would have torn it down and started over. This is going to be a 6,000 sq ft home priced at $800K.

From my experience, radiant barrier-proper ventilation-and insulation will result in a cooler attic every time. The result has been a more comfortable house with less AC use- therefore, energy savings. I don't have any experience in the colder climes.

In n. texas, the drill seems to be that builders go with the cheapest and quickest route which means a couple of turtle vents to provide 02 for the furnaces in the attic- that meets code. But the roofers on reroofs have all gone for the ridge vent. Most are rarely cut in correctly and I never see adequate soffit vents or other intake.

Building Science is a growing discipline. The data is there but few are skilled enough to implement it. It all comes down to giving a care.

I got some good information from greenbuildingadvisor.com but no consensus. The one thing they all agreed upon, however, was never put hvac equipment and ducts in the attic. That's too funny because the attic is where every builder puts that stuff in n. texas. One tract builder back in the 70s did lower the ceiling in the center hall and kept the ducts out of the attic. But a 7 foot ceiling is something only a hobbit would love.