TPO vs SPF - From a Marketing Perspective

We're just getting back into TPO after 20-years away so still a lot to learn, but here is a stark difference I see thus far in terms of marketing/bidding.

SPF - Spend a lot of time and money convincing potential customers that they need something that I know is good, but they really don't understand or grasp the need/advantages.

TPO - Sit in the office and bid dozens of jobs each week for builders where architects have specified TPO, a system that won't last as long as SPF and in and of itself has no R-value and thus no chance of payback with energy savings.

Not all that excited about the additional complication of new construction...

Roofguy, I think it was you that posted a video of a machine that was foaming a roof with a guy watching it. It had wind shields to control that factor, and it was doing automatic" job of it. That takes out the human factor of swinging the gun, and it takes out the wind. All of the details still have to be done and if it started to rain, you were screwed. The temperature of the materials and the length of the hoses etc. are variables that can be controlled, but a person has to be vigilant and patient. I remember about 38 years ago, we lived across the street from a high school. They were trying to finish the roof (reroof!) of the building in late November, and honest to god, they were spraying by hand in a misty freezing drizzle! Oh yeah, it all failed, and they blamed it on the product I am sure. We sell some Conklin coatings too, but you have to pick your days for any of those products. The chain is never any stronger than its weakest link! Like you said, I guess a new trailer and new equipment don't make a roofer!

Alba Said: I agree with you Old School.Right now SPF seems like an equation with so many variables and all of them have to align just right in order to have a good quality product.Besides the factors that you mentioned its sturdiness is another problem with SPF.Often I see cracks developing along the insulation lines on the roofs with steel decking.But if you look at the ever increasing labor cost and shortage thereof , the SPF offers the most opportunity through automation to install large roofs with a limited man power.It has to be improved the same way EPDM,TPO and PVC membranes were from their earlier versions which were failures by and large.

SPF is very predictable, if you have formal training. The cracks you refer to are likely because the foam wasn't at least 1", or it was off ratio/crispy, or the weather conditions weren't right. The vast majority of SPF roofers don't even know that you shouldn't install it if the dew point temperature spread isn't at least 5 degrees. Thus, failures get blames on SPF when the problem was the installer.

There is also becoming a glut of SPF interior insulation installers, many of which then seek greener pastures in roofing and don't know that they are 2 different animals.

Without underlying insulation, TPO/PVC/EPDM have virtually no R-value and thus can't pay for themselves. SPF can pay for itself in 5-10 years in energy savings. It's a unique animal in that.

I agree with you Old School.Right now SPF seems like an equation with so many variables and all of them have to align just right in order to have a good quality product.Besides the factors that you mentioned its sturdiness is another problem with SPF.Often I see cracks developing along the insulation lines on the roofs with steel decking.But if you look at the ever increasing labor cost and shortage thereof , the SPF offers the most opportunity through automation to install large roofs with a limited man power.It has to be improved the same way EPDM,TPO and PVC membranes were from their earlier versions which were failures by and large.

Roofguy, I was not criticizing you, and everything you say is true. I just see a lot of "Roofing Contractors" that have never been on a roof in their lives; just subbing out to the lowest priced subs they can find and making a very good living off from them. There is a big difference between a roofing contractor and a roofer. We know the difference, most building owners don't. Good point about the insurance, At least we got some of our money back!

Old School Said: Roofguy, I have often wondered about that. What value do we bring in when we sub out the work? Like Vaa said, that is a desktop roofer. It is great that you made some money (22.6%) for doing almost nothing, but is there any value there? Just a thought!

Fair question.

The value to the customer: He gets me to stand behind his guarantee with 47-years of stability and an A+ BBB rating. He also trusts my judgement to make sure he gets what he needs and no more or no less. He pays no penalty for me making 22.6% because insurance law dictates that he cannot make a profit on the roof work - thus, if he deals directly with the sub that 22.6% goes back to State Farm.

The value to me: I don't run the risk of losing a customer by letting another roofer do the shingle work for my customer.

Alba, SPF may be the future of roofing down south where it is hot and dry, but here in Michigan, there are only about 25 or 30 days a year that are suitable for spraying anything. It is either too windy, or too wet, or too cold. So many variables to work with that it doesn't make much sense. There are companies that do SPF, but most of their work is interior insulation. Roofguy, I have often wondered about that. What "value" do we bring in when we sub out the work? Like Vaa said, that is a "desktop" roofer. It is great that you made some money (22.6%) for doing almost nothing, but is there any value there? Just a thought!

We've been out of the residential shingle market for over 20-years. Just got back in when a local supplier told me "Local roofers don't usually have their own crews - there are 10-15 shingle sub crews here and everyone uses them.

And the one we started using does excellent work! Just did a $53,000 church job, we pocketed $12,000 for putting it all together. Easy breezy.

Much commercial new construction here is Union. When residential slows down, the shinglers are out cutting prices in the replacement market

SPF is the future of the industry but needs to be more user friendly ,more flexible to gain more acceptance.