Tile cuts at valleys

I am wondering if anyone else is as grateful as me for people that cut tile valleys so close that they dam up and cause leaks B) sure does keep me busy on the newer homes.

One and two-piece mission tiles have to be fastened but they are a completely different animal. (I imagine you are just pulling our chains with the pic) Shingles, shakes, and slates have to be fastened too. In the old old days, back in the old country, they used to fasten stone slates with little pegs driven into holes in them. The Union generals felt that way about Nathan Bedford Forrest, too. They couldn't peg him and he was always slipping away to give them a new headache.

What do you think, nails or no nails :)

In the valley dam roulette, there's always something new. This is one I found yesterday on a house on the Columbia River. It's hard to see in the pic, but the cause of the damming is shells from freshwater scallops. The little buggers must have really got their shells flapping to have flown up there.

Or maybe the birds helped them get up there.

I forgot to mention that wind seems to slear off the valleys with the gutter screen. The water drips through, the leaves and needles dry out and the wind keeps it pretty clean. :)

I am surprised I didn't get flamed for it though. :P

When I sell an open valley conversion, I stress what the customer is getting isn't never having to clean it again, but a valley that is much easier (and cheaper for them) to clean. If you are installing tile in a location that the common practice is a raised facia (vs using metal or birdstop to raise the eave), an open valley will make a big difference in the likelihood of damming problems at the eaves.

Yes, at first thought and as per common perception, is that an open valley allows for a more "free-flow", so-to-speak. However, after 30+ years and somewhere north of 150,000 squares of tile installed, we have found that a closed valley is far less problematic, both in cold climates, as well as heavy debris situations. The debris is going to collect either way. Just less-so w/closed valley.

I've had some problematic slate roofs that were under pines and other nasty trees. You all know I like to think outside the box, even when the solution isn't in a book.

I open the valley to 5" or 6" depending on lenght, valley metal, and tile/slate shape. I install copper gutter screen in the valley. You know, what ever the situation dictates. The debris collects on top of the screen and on top of the slate/tile and can be swept off. The little bit that collects under the screen gets rinsed out with a hose. :)

I have witnessed a small amount of wind damage to tile. By far the thing most susceptible to blowing off around here is V-ridge on hips of steep roofs. Even though they were nailed, they "hang out" and don't rest on the tile on steep roofs allowing the wind to ripple them. It could have been prevented if the installer had properly sealed the laps. I try to talk the customer into using rounded trim on everything steeper than 9/12.

I had one roof that had tile rippled up three times. It was located at the top of a ridge and had a gable facing into the wind. The tiles subject to uplift were about 3 or 4 feet in from the rake end, indicating that the wind would create a swirl as it went around the gable. It's a steep roof and the tile was nailed and never blew off, it would just get shuffled. Dabs of RT600 at the headlap cured the problem.

TomB, my BIL has a vacation home in Beaver Creek. It's in a newer development supposed to look like old miners cabins. If miners lived in 2400 square foot luxury homes, anyways.

Closed valleys... Can keep a roofing contractor busy in repairs year around....

On our way to the ski lifts, I walk briskly through the plaza in Beaver Creek, keeping a watchful eye above, as I know all those hundreds of rake tiles, 50' above on 8:12 + pitches, are held by a single 16d nail, (sometimes it's a sinker, to boot!)....no copper wire, no adhesive.....Every once in awhile one will come crashing down......I can't believe no-one's been killed.

The ones that fall off are the rake tiles. That's about it. When you have a nine lb. tile interlocked in the field with its immediate neighbors and weighed down at the head by eighteen lbs of interlocking successors, it's quite a feat to get it out at all, even un-nailed. Earthquakes cause a building to "hop" but the "hopping" action combined with the pulling action you have to engage to remove one of those is not something Mother Nature is likely to duplicate. In a bad enough earthquake it is more likely that the entire overhang would fall off than the tile.

If it goes to court, that's when the dufus mindset gains the upper hand. "Tile not fastened properly... installer not properly trained ... judgement for the plaintiff." (or something of that order.)

Right or wrong, we wire them in the valleys. They can't fly off the roof but they can be moved around a bit. Maybe the spec is designed to appease Dade county types. We don't get uplift from winds over a hundred miles an hour. Maybe the right wind could get under them and peel them out of a valley. Tornado would do it. Don't have those here. All I know is I can get some nasty little blood-blisters while extracting tiles from the field even when I'm careful.

Don't want to have to use a cutting torch to open the hood and check the oil. God, I have a bad attitude. (and it just keeps getting worse)

Its funny that you say that egg,because I still don't get fastening tile with a nail. I have yet to see a tile fall off of a roof because it wasn't nailed. I understand adhering them to the next tile for lack of a batt around a chimney or valley but a nail in them, not needed in my opinion. Unless your in California like me where there might be an earthquake but still. My comments are for one piece tile.

Not exactly on-topic but I remember well when the law first changed on tile installation and the rule for fastening became "three up, three down, three in, three out." Try cleaning out a clogged valley when all the parts have been nailed down with a 10d fastener.

IMO closed valleys work best overall.

In cold climates, ice can build-up in valleys, mixed with pine needles/debris as re-enforcing fiber, causing bothersome ice dams/ponding.

Temperate climates; Open valleys, again, create a great nesting spot for leaves/debris, whereas, otherwise, with a closed valley, the valley underneath remains relatively clear.

Of course, if some nucklehead leaves debris in the original construction, or doesn't prepare tile correctly, as wywoody mentioned, it's all a crap shoot.

Most tile roofs we run across here in the mountains of Colorado are ill-installed. The poor quality/dependency on underlayment mentality, during the last significant construction activity, are coming to fruition. It takes a decade or so for the underlayments to finally give up the ghost.

Closed valleys are still the norm for new construction here. But I do enough open valley conversions that I can quote a per-foot price for them. The biggest cause of valley damming that I see is the roofer not removing enough of the lug for drainage. Even if you're using batten extenders, removing 1/3 of the lug will help drainage. Cutting the top inside corner (comparable to clipping comp valley corners) greatly cuts down on damming.

But I'm with you on being grateful. The clowns I cursed for being incompetent as competition, most long gone, I now thank for making me recession proof.