The New Breed of Roofer

Tom, we don't do residential and haven't for 25 years.

I'm talking about the guys who substitute glitz for the experience they don't have. I guess I can't blame them, they have to find an angle. I just get annoyed that the customer is sometimes fooled by the sizzle.

They have fabulous websites that make them look like multi-state conglomerates, but lo & behold, the first clue is that all of their offices are in cities that got a big hailstorm in the last few years. I do extensive "opposition research" and some of these guys have as many as 17 former addresses.

They fill their literature full of courses they took, certificates of participation, accreditation...but they couldn't tell you coal tar from asphalt if their life depended on it. Don't get me wrong, I don't think advancing your knowledge through education is a bad thing - I took the HAAG Engineering low slope hail course many years ago...admitedly though, it wasn't because I thought they could teach me much, I just wanted to know how they think because I'd been going up against them in claims.

Most of our customer are very successful businesspersons and they can tell in 5 minutes who know what he's talking about and who is selling the sizzle because he doesn't know how to cook steak.

MikeH - I may be wrong, but I think Roofguy was eluding to the current residential roofer, not-so-much the commercial-focused outfit. Although some of them can get quite glitzy as well.

BTW - I don't have time to go into as much detail, but our story sort of mirrors yours in reverse.....In the mid-90's I had employees/roofers making $100K, I provided 100% health insurance for employees, as well as all their dependents, as well as additional perks. Had but ONE estimator besides myself. There was really no "sales" at all. Then we grew to 80+ employees, did the whole NRCA, local assoc's, BBB, chambers, HBA's, etc.....the available workforce went south, (pun intended, etc. etc.....)....and the truth of the matter, is that I just got burned-out on the whole mess.....I found myself siting at a table at the local roofers association meetings and couldn't get the saying my dad had said to me once....."well, son, if you swim in chit - some's bound to rub off on you".....

I down-sized, moved to the area where we "fit" better & back to GC'ing and some roofing.

I am somewhat blessed, in that I don't HAVE to swim in that cesspool.....Some have no choice.

I'm just pissed because, due to the last economic downturn, or changing times, (or whatever the case may be), the chit overflowed and has run up here.

Mike , I as many admire the hard work you have put in your company and roofing as a profession. I will admit I have be come lazy. When I'm made aware of my laziness and dragging my feet by the example you set, I am compelled to exert the will to quicken my pace in the very direction my laziness has been avoiding, realizing entropy is the enemy and the fight against it can never ends. B) :) :) B) Deep Down In Florida Where The Sun Shines Damn Near Every Day

I should mention too that I'm not huge. I may not be "small" to a lot of people on this board, but I am almost always the smallest contractor competing for the kind of work we go after. While we will do anything, we really specialize at high end, difficult or unusual jobs that scare away the masses. At present I have just 22 hourly employees. Of that 22, 13 have been here for 7 years or more (we consider you fully "senior" after 7 years) and only 2 people were hired this year.

In 1996 I had 49 employees and went through people like paper towels.

2012 was a record year for us, and 2013 was our second best. So we are doing more work, with half the people. To me, that's success all by itself.

Twill, thanks, and it was one of your earlier posts that sparked that vitriole. I meant to say something like, "It sounds like Twill has found that niche, and finding some peace in it."... then forgot by the time I got to the end.

TomB, It may not have been laced with detail, but there's nothing cliche about it, or my company. I do almost zero work within the county I reside. It's a small county, with a down economy, and largely focused on price. I have to travel north, up I-77 to the population centers to find enough customers to feed the animal. Here's what I know from observation.... Most roofer's aren't near as good as they think they are, and that probably includes me. But I can tell you this much, my employee turnover is almost zilch. I'm the second roofing contractor in Ohio to go "drug free", and the first to not go bankrupt doing it. I paid out $46K in job specific employee incentive bonuses this year for completing jobs on, or under, schedule, and those bonuses don't get paid if it doesn't pass both a Supt and Mfr inpsection and a rain test. Christmas bonuses this year average over $7,000 per hourly employee. Every employee gets 3-6% in thier 401K regardless of whether they contribute, or not, and those that do, often get more. Everyone has full family health coverage and it costs them $100/month. I spend a serious amount of money every year on our safety plan, and making sure that no injured employee collects temporary total compensation, even if that means I have to pay his non productive wages myself. I'm the only roofing contractor EVER nominated by the Ohio BWC for the states top award in safety, and we've been nominated twice. I have put together an outstanding team of people at this company, all of whom take a lot of pride in what the team produces. I've been through some good people that just weren't team players to get here.

We don't compete on price. We don't have "salesmen". We have roofer's that have moved up to sales positions. They are educators, communicators, conscientious and professional. They don't carry smoke guns or mirrors. They make a LOT of dry runs, waste uncountable hours on jobs they know they will never get, but they get almost 100% of the jobs with the right kind of customer, and every once in a while we get surprised when our "gut" about someone turned out to be completely wrong.

In 1996, very few roofers here made over $20k/year, and they had NO benefits of any kind, we had drugs being used and sold on roofs, employees not showing up for work on a daily basis, equipment falling apart, and scratching our way through the mountain of crap that was the pathway of the average rubber & torchdown roofer. I was working 14-18 hours a day to keep it afloat, burning myself out quick, and I had to answer a couple of questions: 1: Would I work here? The answer was unequivocally NO 2: What would it take for me want to work here? 3: Can we possibly compete in the market if we provide the things I would need to stay as a roofer here? 4: If I was a consumer, what would I be willing to pay more for?

The answers to those questions led me down the path that took me here. I was afraid that the day we officially went drug free, we would lose our whole workforce. We lost a lot. But we survived. Today, with a better workforce, we get more done, with better products, with better customers, and we do it at a price that is COMPETITIVE in the market. There are always those that are cheaper. The trick is figuring out how to weed through the bad customers to find the good. It ain't easy. Nothing ever is. But I went to school in Fort Collins and I have quite a bit of family in Denver, and good friends in Gunnison. There is a lot more money in Colorado than there is NE Ohio. People with money didn't get that way by being stupid. They won't spend more money on something if they don't see the value. The only real trick is showing them the value. In my case, the value is real, and what we sell is what they get. You have to find a way to make yourself DIFFERENT.

I compete every day against the most sophisticated roofing sales machine every built, headquartered just 1.5 hours from my shop. TheY offer one stop shopping, ease of buying, ease of maintenance, a 20 year warranty that they honor. Getting the good customer to see that under it all it's still just a poorly detailed rubber roof is hard, and even some very good people choose to go that route because of the sense of security they get from the largeness of the of the contractor and the simplicity of the system.

If I can do it, anyone can do it. Anyone here just has to ask themselves the questions they need to answer to get where they want to go, then take the big leap necessary to head that direction. I can say with 100% experienced based confidence, it can be a very scary first step.

Oh what fun... We are all like cats, we will land on our feet.

You said that well Mike.

Mike & Tinner's latest comments - I think I figured that all out 20 yrs ago.....In this particular arena/locale' one simply needs a top-notch "tin-man" and your good....I will admit, I have issues with that. We all make choices.

No pun intended.....

Mike - a bit cliché'- However, what a good majority of what roofers, in general strive for, (or claim to anyhow), and just plan ole common-sense, (to some of us).

Few probably actually achieve what you have for one reason or another....Some tend to over-think things - Some are just in the wrong place, (square peg in a round hole), etc.....

My personal frustration is being beat-out by the charlatan's.....You can lay-out your company's accomplishments, references, $50Mil in roofing over the past three decades, only to be beat-out by the 29 yr old shyster that just started 7 months prior.....and not necessarily on price.

My point was that it's ALL about salesmanship, ("smoke-n'-mirrors"), these days.....Few and far between do we run into "quality clients".

The new breed is the "salesman".....not the quality orientated contractor of yester-year.

Good for you though!

Give me call tomorrow if you want. In my feeble way, I'll try to make it understandable.

TomB Said: Tinner - I missed something there.....opportunity knocked?.....huh? Whahh?.....I musta been out back :dry: :unsure:

Could you elaborate for the this simpleton?

Mike explained it much better than I could. It boils down to; Do I race to the bottom, or do I move to another level and get into the correct niche that will continue to pay the bills even during the recessions. Most of them anyway.

Cadilac, Rolls, Porsche, Ferrari, among others, still have buyers. They didn't go under during the 'crashes' we've had.

It was 1996 when I came to the realization that fighting for the every-day job was a losing proposition, doomed to keep us in the realm of the low wage, no benefits, constantly shifting workforce, or be a small contractor, with little overhead and owner/toolbelt combo. My back injury made the second option impossible. It was learn to work smarter, or accept my place in the world of commodity roofing. I focused on products, customer EDUCATION, and I mean real education. Making them aware of what really matters. Pointing out just how important a roof was, what it does and why it's not the place to skimp. Sitting an office with new carpet was always fun.... New commercial grade carpet usually costs in excess of $50/sq yd... a roof, more like $30-40,, the carpet lasts 10-12 years, and the RIGHT ROOF lasts 30+. I ask them why they don't drive a Hyundai when they start asking about warranties.

It doesn't take long to learn that every customer isn't for us. Some want their pockets padded. NOT HAPPENING! Some say "I'm oughta here in 7 years, I don't care if it last longer than that", and while I can feel sorry for the owner that has put this person in charge of these decisions, it's not often in my charge to change it. Some will flip the building in 5-10 years. I know they are not spending a dollar more than necessary.... but when I find that customer that doesn't drink every glass of KoolAid places before them, really cares about what they buy, and doesn't want their poor decisions being someone else's problem down the road, I have a customer that deserves to be valued.

It's my little place in the market. It works for me. And my headaches have been on a constant decline for 17 years. It ain't easy either, and it has it's frustrations as well, but it's so much better than the old way we did things.

Tinner - I missed something there....."opportunity knocked?".....huh? Whahh?.....I must'a been out back :dry: :unsure:

Could you elaborate for the this simpleton?

"Roofguy - I'm with you 100% - I've whined about that very topic numerous times over the past few years.

Jobs are no longer won on merit - only "salesmanship"

Things have changed - old school types such as I need to get with it or suffer"

I think opportunity knocked on your door and you didn't bother to answer it.

I saw the trend developing about 15-20 years or so ago. I invited myself onto every jobsite I saw under some pretense or the other, "I though Joe ran this crew?? Do you do sub work? Is it OK for me look around a bit since I'm here? I want your card and I'm looking for subs." I never once saw a crew I would sub my work to. I did see a huge opportunity to specialize in repairs on new work after the contractor of choice walked off and quit honoring the repairs necessary to correct their jobs. This, in addition to working on historic slate and metal roofs keeps me busy. :)