Stereotyping & Religion

Now see Ciak, that's what I'm talking about. I have no idea what you just said to egg. Not the first clue. Wouldn't know how to respond to it, if I wanted to. So it's not a lack of desire, interest or matter of courtesy, but rather one of confusion that keeps me silent to your posts.>>>

egg The numerology of your post and content.... The Ascended Masters are near you, desiring you to know that you have their help, love, well you get the idea . 333 cool if this thing goes to 666 I'll leave it to someone else . I don't subscribe to those belief .>>>

When you set out to explore all the facets of this triune concept, and include a look at the history of its development, even if in the end it does nothing to change one's orientation, you get a very, very good look at the way the human mind has coped with the whole issue of God and religion.

For the record I believe Jesus was a pivot point in the world of man but I also believe the pivot point of Christianity, the state-ordered religion of the late Roman empire, is located at a different mental and temporal spot than that of Jesus' life or even the mortal lives of any of his apostles or even the mortal lives of any of his apostles' apostles.

The potential problem with this is that the text of the New Testament, and therefore the Bible itself, is inextricably bound to Emperor Constantine, the first council of Nicaea, the Nicene Creed, and the concept of the triune God.

I know that there were some very difficult and dicey times during the early years, years that were so dangerous that one can understand the impulse of the bishops to curb debate.

Nevertheless, debate continued, raged even, for a great many decades. The first council was convened at Constantine's order, before he himself was even baptized, to settle once and for all by human committee, at spear-point, what existing text and policy would and what existing text and policy would not be included. I have a big problem with that.

One of the most telling issues that involved the Trinity was the issue of God hanging Himself on the cross.

In another day, even discussing any of this would have been heresy and punishable by death. Now THAT in itself presented its own serious problems and is misaligned to all of Jesus' teachings. Yet that creed is still in there at the heart of orthodoxy, like a spider-gear, driving who knows how many wheels in how many directions.

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Like I said If you were to read the bible with out a preconceived idea you would never think there was a trinity.>>>

Thanks Copperman In my estimation it is man made and really makes no sense.>>>

Trinity

Definition: The central doctrine of religions of Christendom. According to the Athanasian Creed, there are three divine Persons (the Father, the Son, the Holy Ghost), each said to be eternal, each said to be almighty, none greater or less than another, each said to be God, and yet together being but one God. Other statements of the dogma emphasize that these three “Persons” are not separate and distinct individuals but are three modes in which the divine essence exists. Thus some Trinitarians emphasize their belief that Jesus Christ is God, or that Jesus and the Holy Ghost are Jehovah. Not a Bible teaching.

What is the origin of the Trinity doctrine?

The New Encyclopædia Britannica says: “Neither the word Trinity, nor the explicit doctrine as such, appears in the New Testament, nor did Jesus and his followers intend to contradict the Shema in the Old Testament: ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord’ (Deut. 6:4). . . . The doctrine developed gradually over several centuries and through many controversies. . . . By the end of the 4th century . . . the doctrine of the Trinity took substantially the form it has maintained ever since.”—(1976), Micropædia, Vol. X, p. 126.

The New Catholic Encyclopedia states: “The formulation ‘one God in three Persons’ was not solidly established, certainly not fully assimilated into Christian life and its profession of faith, prior to the end of the 4th century. But it is precisely this formulation that has first claim to the title the Trinitarian dogma. Among the Apostolic Fathers, there had been nothing even remotely approaching such a mentality or perspective.”—(1967), Vol. XIV, p. 299.

In The Encyclopedia Americana we read: “Christianity derived from Judaism and Judaism was strictly Unitarian [believing that God is one person]. The road which led from Jerusalem to Nicea was scarcely a straight one. Fourth century Trinitarianism did not reflect accurately early Christian teaching regarding the nature of God; it was, on the contrary, a deviation from this teaching.”—(1956), Vol. XXVII, p. 294L.

According to the Nouveau Dictionnaire Universel, “The Platonic trinity, itself merely a rearrangement of older trinities dating back to earlier peoples, appears to be the rational philosophic trinity of attributes that gave birth to the three hypostases or divine persons taught by the Christian churches. . . . This Greek philosopher’s [Plato, fourth century B.C.E.] conception of the divine trinity . . . can be found in all the ancient [pagan] religions.”—(Paris, 1865-1870), edited by M. Lachâtre, Vol. 2, p. 1467.

John L. McKenzie, S.J., in his Dictionary of the Bible, says: “The trinity of persons within the unity of nature is defined in terms of ‘person’ and ‘nature’ which are G[ree]k philosophical terms; actually the terms do not appear in the Bible. The trinitarian definitions arose as the result of long controversies in which these terms and others such as ‘essence’ and ‘substance’ were erroneously applied to God by some theologians.”—(New York, 1965), p. 899.

Even though, as Trinitarians acknowledge, neither the word “Trinity” nor a statement of the Trinitarian dogma is found in the Bible, are the concepts that are embodied in that dogma found there?

Does the Bible teach that the “Holy Spirit” is a person?

Some individual texts that refer to the holy spirit (“Holy Ghost,” KJ) might seem to indicate personality. For example, the holy spirit is referred to as a helper (Greek, pa‧ra′kle‧tos; “Comforter,” KJ; “Advocate,” JB, NE) that ‘teaches,’ ‘bears witness,’ ‘speaks’ and ‘hears.’ (John 14:16, 17, 26; 15:26; 16:13) But other texts say that people were “filled” with holy spirit, that some were ‘baptized’ with it or “anointed” with it. (Luke 1:41; Matt. 3:11; Acts 10:38) These latter references to holy spirit definitely do not fi

No problem Mike. I understand you . You are right about the idea of wrapping a conscious mind around a concept that make no sense. In any form . I know the analogies ice water steam yadda yadda. A very shallow explanation. Does anyone know where this idea came from ? I'm truthfully curious about it .>>>

CIAK,

I'm not trying to offend you or be lackluster. I did not understand your previous post. I didn't understand what you were asking me, and I have a hard time commenting on a lot of your writings because our brains appear to be wired very differently and I just don't comprehend much of it. It's like I expect you to turn right, but you turn left, and my head flies out the window. Sorry man. Sincerely.

Pot,

As I seem to recall, and I've been really busy here of late, and don't recall what I had for dinner, let alone the content of 320+ lost posts, I thought your interpretation of the trinity was three distinct beings and that Christ was not diety. I would say that what I read points toward Christ being God, in flesh, and while equal in one sense, not equal in another, yet still the same. Fur shur a concept that is impossible to wrap a three dimensional mind around. A concept that takes faith, for reason could never explain it.

If I was wrong, I apologize for the mix up.>>>

Mike I'll just have to let it be . Maybe you'll cozy up and hear me maybe not. " i dunno " I'll just keep posting .The only comment you get after a sincere reaching out is the same lackluster. Had a insincere I don't care . It is a real stretch The Trinity three Gods in one . I just can't wrap my mind around that concept I know some Christian use it as a sign post whether your real or(evil). I liked egg's singing analogy . That resonates Does anyone know the history of the Trinity ? Where did it start in recorded history. Verifiable history . What were it's origins . >>>

Pot, That first verse just leaves me all the more confused as to why you would reject the concept of the Trinity. Funny how two people read the same thing and walk away with completely different interpretations.Your text here

I'm sorry Mike , if I give any hint of rejection of the trinity....maybe. What is your idea of the trinity? Possibly we see the Trinity as two different things?

Mine is this....that there are 3 in the....what I consider as the Trinity,or the Godhead, and that those 3 are, Father,Son,Holy Ghost.

Where did I give an indication of otherwise?>>>

If one read the bible without a preconceived idea of a trinity you would not think there is one after you read it. This would be even more apparent if you were to used a bible that has God's name in it instead of replacing it with Lord. One has to ask Why did they do that?>>>

Egg,

I gotta admit, that the few times I've hand nailed shingles left me with the clear impression that becoming a master at it was something I had no desire for. While I admire your passion for the tap=TAP tap-TAP tap-TAP, ..................... well, that's about as far as it goes. Sorry friend. I'll post an obigatory atta-boy on the thread if you like. ;)

CIAK, Like I said before, I don't comprehend most of what you wrote/write. Your last questions to me left me feeling :S and That little yellow dude looks bewildered to me.

Pot, That first verse just leaves me all the more confused as to why you would reject the concept of the Trinity. Funny how two people read the same thing and walk away with completely different interpretations.>>>

I did not read all 17 pages....also did not get all the text written by each individual. It cut off after a few sentences(I'll talk to Steve) All of this came out of Roofguy touching a hot stove?

I was told "don't stick anything in the outlet, just a plug", right, guess what? Whoooooo! I was told "don't ever take the bone away from the dog, it may bite you", right , man that hurt. I was told "leave the birds nest alone, you'll damage the eggs" I'll be, Mom was right, I broke them. I was told "never dance with a guy right after you rejected another, it will hurt his feelings. Right again. I was told " DO UNTO OTHERS AS YOU WOULD HAVE OTHERS DO UNTO YOU " Works for ME!>>>

I'm guessing it's closely related to humanity's innate desire to sing. I guess hand-nailing just doesn't pluck most people's heartstrings.>>>

So you're thinking there's a raw nerve being touched here?>>>