Snap lines ??

Chalk lines are handy tools and I own several different kinds,all of which I keep in good shape, and I use them frequently. Snap out lines for every single course? I would have to be either out of my mind, or ready and willing to go there. Not my time yet unless one is talking about tile. Then I snap every horizontal line and numerous vertical ones as well. Grand Manor and such...yeah...every line. 3-tab? They have to be gauged from the butts...they used to be as much as a quarter inch off in height straight from the plant. Laminates? No way. Shakes? Never. You use the felt showing between your previously laid edges. Wood shingles? Never seen a bundle milled yet that was machined for height, not even the rebutted stuff. Why do we keep going over this subject? It's taken me years to get anal and it is an urge I feel it necessary to fight. Every single course on a comp roof? My word! Life is way too short for that unless the shingler has no clue what he's doing, just doesn't care, or is an inveterate klutz. It's insane. (imho of course) (My apologies; I realize that as the years roll by, I get progressively more contumelious) (wink) I've seen kinky courses, wavy courses, wandering courses, undulating courses, and straight courses. That biz with "perfectly" straight courses is out there with string theory. "Nice contradiction between fact and fact will make the whole read human and exact."

Oh One more thing when i bought my first nail gun and compressor these same guys would already have a sq or 2 on by the time i set up then give me crap about my hoses being in their way then ontop of it all they thought it was funny nailing my hoses to the roof.

As far as the lines go if i dared mention snapping a line they would say thats what your hatchet is for. They gave me crap until i could use it properly and lay shingles straight. As far as the mouth trick never not in a million years tried it once and only once. These guys walked 8-10/12 pitch nails in mouth hammer in one hand shingles in the other - i am the one who caught hell for triing to jack it -- or dropping everything triing not to fall without jacks.

I respected these guys. They got the job done and a roof was a roof as long as it did not leak and looked good from the ground - I dont know how many times i heard the Bar-b-Q line but it was often. but i will also be the first to admit now days they would be considered hacks - Times have changed and i have changed with them - I once not to long ago had to tear off a roof on a 40 ft run about 10 sq because we were off one inch at the ridge - This guy was an engineer and had his house built upon his own blueprints years prior to us tearing off -- Funny thing is his framing was off 2 1/2 inches from eave to ridge he made us compensate for the whole 2/12" on like 10 rows every row we snapped a line - 1/4" every 3-4 rows or something he had it all diagramed and everything -- He says in my business everything is measured to the ten thousands of an inch -- It was fun let me tell ya :woohoo:

I totally agree ventilation/insulation problem -- But figure out why now it leaks in the winter and why it did not last year or the 20 years prior to new roof - and the only difference is the roof is now covered with a garbage bag - and the new shingles of course. Not just 1 home either with the sub zero weather we have been having i bet i have had 20 calls in the past 2 weeks. I get them every year some on houses we have done some on others 9 out of ten times the roof is new within 1 -2 years only difference is the underlayment and ice shield.

I had one last year 3" of frost in the attic he ice shielded his entire roof there was enough vents but ony 3" of insulation - He says i thought that was supposed to stop the leaks in the winter - turns out he made them worse it was a 4 pitch 2nd time being re-done -- the second roofer must have thought since he had such a problem with ice dams he would ice shield complete house - even cut in soffit and ridge vent -- but failed to check insulation - He also tells me before the hail damage i never had any leaks in the winter and my roof was over 20 years old - i did it myself years ago and just put shingles on no underlayment?. He got a new roof 2 years in a row -- First contractor was a storm chaser and he thought it leaked because of their reputation -- 2nd roofer was a local friend of his who told him the insulation-- me the 3rd guy reffered him to an insulation contractor and kinda backed up his friend roofer because the home owner really thought it was a shingle/roof problem since he never had any problems before the new roofs.

Hey, I am one of those "old school" guys and we always struck lines. Been at this for 53 of my 57 years. We used AJC hatchets because my grandfather invented them and we hand nailed and I never put the nails in my mouth. I couldn't spit them as fast as we nailed and working them through your fingers was faster.

The condensation problems are from a lack of ventilation more than anything to do with the underlayment. We worked on one today with soffit vents and ridge vent, but when we took out the old soffit vents, they had plugged the soffits up with rolls of fiberglas insulation. Quite common. What were they thinking?

Every 4 courses. It is funny when you hear people that say they can lay shingles straighter without lines.

Of course, they will stretch a line to "prove" it. Yeah right!

I may get flamed but no not unless deck is 50 ft or longer -- I can keep them straight enough on anything under --or more than 2 or so shinglers on the same deck -- anyway with a dip they look crooked regardless -- snap the starter and the rain slots - ridge - or around dormers. Not like someone is going to have a bar b q on the roof anyhow - as long as you keep the right exposure a little weave or hook wil not hurt anything.

I remember back in the 80's hardly ever a line go right off the 6" tab -- when you came to a chimney or wall break out the black mammy. The old school roofers back then had no teeth because they held the galvys in their mouth and rotted their teeth -- Also cannot remember any of them not having a bottle on the job either. Piece rate was like $10 - $12 per sq back then.

I still remember re-doing them roofs in the late 90's early 2000 most held up for 15 years or better.

Today i had aboy half dozen calls come in from frost in the attic - Seems like the Ice shield and synthetic felt like shinglemate - roofer select etc is not allowing for as much breathability and holding in the moisture / heat - Roofs that had no ice shield and organic felt for 15 - 20 years with no problems now leak in the winter because their insulation/ ventilation is inadequate for a code compliant roof -- however it would be adequate if the roof was not code compliant and organic felt was used. go figure?

Has anyone used the felt lines as thier guide? Our state code requires at least 1/4 inch overhang of felt into the gutter. I simply use the 2nd line on the felt as my initial guide and line that line up with the outer most facsia. This will give your 1st course 2 1/8th inch overhang....keep the felt in line all the way to the ridge and most cases...come out in line.

Our guages on our roofing nailers are set at 5 5/8 for 3-tab and laminates....we can guage all day and have a straight course when completed.

Any thing longer than 100 ft, it's time to chalk lines up the roof every 10 ft.

Do you use a level to hang cabinets??????? Always snap lines ,it's the sign of a true professional and a person who takes pride in their work. Why is it that there's always enough time to do it over, but never enough time to do it right :silly:

Well you're in a jocular mood for the new yr :laugh:

Yes, always. (for the last time) Never met a shingler yet who can lay down a perfectly straight roof without them.............though there are many who claim they can. As mentioned above a dip in the plywood will throw even a competent shingler out of line.

I prefer 10 inch lines ( with 3-tabs ) for a nice straight job. However, in order to save a little time we would often use 20 inch lines. Also if we had any really new guys nailing we would use 5 inch lines to help them out. 4 inch lines sometimes on 3-12 slope.

We generally just snap for the starter course but other factors will determine if we snap other lines. Including whether there are any dips in sheathing surface and we will measure down from ridge to where our course is to see the ups and downs and then take action to keep level and lined up right.