Shingle

Most of the storm work is nothing but a racket. Too many slightly damaged roofs are being thrown away when there was plenty of life left in them. Most roofs are poorly installed, poorly accessorized, and junk........

Welcome to the Fourm natty!

LadyLovesRoofin Said:

I noticed that no one mentioned the newer Class IV hail-resistant shingles.. Has no one had any experiences to report?

Sometimes I wonder if Im the only one who feels guilty about the 40 billion tons of shingles were dumping into the landfill every year. I understand that it keeps us in business, but in places like TX, OK, and KS where hail is so prevalent that roofs are coming off every two to five years, this is an environmentally-responsible option that needs our backing.

Most of the storm work is nothing but a racket. Too many slightly damaged roofs are being thrown away when there was plenty of life left in them. Most roofs are poorly installed, poorly accessorized, and junk.

I have been using Malarkey Legacy because it is impact resistant, thicker, has a larger nail zone, and might get an insurance discount. The price is comparable to other premium laminates that don't have the impact resistance. I use to use a lot of Elk Prestique Plus because of its thickness, but now it costs too much and no one stocks it.

Lady, you are throwing numbers around! 40 billion tons of shingles would be about 400 billion squares, whick would be 4 trillion square feet which would be an area about 400 by 400 miles. I don't think so.

Speaking of recycling shingles though, there is a company that does it here in Kalamazoo. It costs less if you sort out the debris and it saves a lot of space in the landfills. Oil is expensive and the higher it gets, the more economical it is to reuse the asphalt.

Cha Cha: I'd love to recycle the shingles I tear off, but there is no serious recyclers in my area. Also, it is my understanding that hail-resistant shingles still have to be replaced when damaged by hail, but they have another layer which keeps them from leaking.

Thanks for starting a great topic. Everyone's opinions stirred up some good questions in my mind for later research.

I noticed that no one mentioned the newer Class IV hail-resistant shingles.. Has no one had any experiences to report?

Sometimes I wonder if I'm the only one who feels guilty about the 40 billion tons of shingles we're dumping into the landfill every year. I understand that it keeps us in business, but in places like TX, OK, and KS where hail is so prevalent that roofs are coming off every two to five years, this is an environmentally-responsible option that needs our backing.

Guess we've been lucky. Used to do acres of comp in Ca.....Other than a HUGE, wide-spread issue, GAF had, back in the 80's, with their 3-tab, (metric-sized "Centennial", I believe it was called), we've only experienced one color issue with a comnp shingle, that I can recall.

Home Depor/Home Club(?), used to carry what appeared to be 2nd's by Celotex.....They seemed like crap, but, never was aware of any issues.

Always liked the ELK shingle....But, honestly, they all pretty-much performed, & continue to perform, as expected.

Thanks for the thoughtful post, Stocker.

In my area, northern Ca, I can't get Tamko easily anymore. I liked their colors. Have had some issues with coloration as you describe. Had one job fail right out of the bundle from too much filler and had a tough time getting compensated, though I eventually did. Have one other job 12 years old that is about to lose its skin in a two-bundle area that gets a lot of reflected sun, but the rest is solid.

Of the three-tabs, I agree on the XT-30, although Malarkey makes their Hurricane and the Alaskan that I consider stellar. Probably the best, actually.

I also have had no negative issues with CT landmarks or Presidentials except for serious color problems twice with the (then) Plus Moire black which they took care of instantly. Imo, anything Celotex used to make was good and CT bought them out. Celotex Ambassador was more impressive than the CT version (Landmark T/L) it morphed into but it's still good.

We'll see about the IKO. We don't use or have access to the organic products so we missed out on all that excitement. The glass products seem good, are definitely priced to sell, colors routine but ok, and other than loose granules in the package, there is nothing negative of note so far. I have a sneaking suspicion they may start showing cracks within ten years, but just can't be sure yet.

Pabco seems plenty durable, but not wild about the cut or the colors. The front panel cutouts taper the opposite direction from all the other brands.

Used to use a ton of Elk and used it quite confidently. Don't care for it now, but the colors are still popular. Never have liked GAF Corp. much, but they have some products I can't get anywhere else. I really think the Grand Manor is overrated, especially considering the price. GAF pricing is not currently user-friendly with my suppliers and I have good access to five of them, two national, two multi-state, and one local.

Architecturally, the most impressive shingle ever made that I know of was the Chancellor, a short-lived product.

Time has proven that the most long-lived medium-weight laminate was the JM Woodlands.

The longest-lasting comp shingles I've ever seen were angle-lap one-tabs that were going out just as I was breaking in, right about 1970. Those things were amazing. Never installed one but saw many that were over forty years old. They were thick and most of the time, the granules were pretty much all still on them.

Haven't had much traffic with OC but they seem fine. Had some problems with twenty-year three tabs many years ago, but that's like another lifetime now. All the manuf except for JM had trouble with the glass mat at first.

The new 10 yr Lifetime warranties were quite confusing at first...... :laugh:

The new 10 yr Lifetime warranties were quite confusing at first...... :laugh:

It depends on the type of roof, the consumer, and your costs. One of the things to consider is the pitch of the roof. Getting the shingles on the roof in a way that they will stay and not fall plays a huge factor. If the roof is a 12/12, the shingles will most likely have to be bookshelf stacked. Speaking from experience, Tamko Heritage & GAF Timberline will rarely bookshelf, the bundles have a tendency to become limp in the stocking process. Landmarks, Landmark Pros, Durations, & Oakridge are shingles that this is not a problem with. Certainteed has, by far, the heaviest shingles. Up until recently, their color ion was not as great as OC's Duration or Tamko's Heritage, but when they recently brought out the Landmark Pro, they became more competitive with respect to color options as all the Landmark Pro colors are max def, which was previously only available in the Landmark Premium. Tamko has always had a good color ion, but the problem comes from them updating the granule composition of the shingles every year, and even on a batch to batch basis. If you see a new roof where some of the shingles are a darker shade than the rest of the roof, you are looking at Tamko shingles.

Another thing that needs to be considered is the warranties that the manufacturers offer. All the manufacturers recently (2011) upgraded their architectural shingles to limited lifetime, with the exception of Tamko. Tamko has a 50-year warranty on Heritage when a Tamko system is used (Tamko ice & water shield, 10" starter along the rakes, eaves and in the valleys & Tamko ridgevent). This is the only warranty that does not prorate for 15 years. All of the other manufacturers prorate their shingles after 10 years. This warranty also applies to any building. Certainteed will not offer a lifetime warranty on commercial buildings, apartments, or 2-family/condo units. Tamko and CertainTeed are the two manufacturers that stand behind their warranties the most with the least amount of hassle. Trying to get IKO & GAF to honor a warranty is like pulling teeth. OC is not as bad, but still difficult.

For 3-tabs CertainTeed XT30 is the best shingle. It is heavier than other manufacturers 3-tabs, which typically carry a 25 year warranty.

CertainTeed is also the best for high end projects. The shingles can be pricey, but they also offer the best look, and have a lot of variety with impact resistance options. Presidential & Landmark are both available in triple laminate versions. The best out of the bunch is the Grand Manor line. OC's high end lines (Woodmoor, Woodcrest, & Berkshire) typically only ship out of California and only by the truckload. So unless you have a distributor in your area that stocks them, you are going to have a hard time getting your hands on them. The problem with Tamko Vintage is the ridiculous price of the accessories, and their short life on the market.

What it really comes down to though is the homeowner. Some homeowners don't care what you lead with, they want the cheapest shingles, period. This mindset has skyrocketed since 2008 because every body started tightening their belts. A roof is a grudge purchase, nobody WANTS to get a new roof, they typically get one because they HAVE to. Get a feel for what the homeowner wants and sell accordingly.

I've had really good luck with the Landmark shingle. Done close to 500 now and none have had issues.

My buddy had an ELK roof installed on his home 8 years ago and although hail damaged it there was cracks on the shingles.

I was on a 7 year old OC Oakridge roof a few years ago and found cracks all over it.

I've yet to be on a Timberline roof 10 years or older without cracks.

The Durations are decent but everyone I've done have had shading issues as far as different colored shingles than the rest.

My list would be like this, Certainteed (Landmark line) I don't like the XT's or Independance. OC Duration Tamko Heritage Castlebrook (IKO?) IKO Cambridge EVERY OTHER SHINGLE ON THE MARKET GAF/ELK Timberline

CertainTeed, GAF and then Owens Corning. That is for the warranty's that they offer.

Most shingles are about the same. We will see after a few more years how the IKO's that have become the leader in bottom dollar.

I refuse to install IKO in my company. Did one job and that was enough to see first hand that they didn't have the quality materials that we like.

i would say gaf.

Old School Said: Watch out for the OC Duration. They will have a LOT of problems in the very near future with the way their adhesive strip goes all the way across with no breaks. It traps moisture at that point and it will rust out the nails. Just a word for the wise!

That was changed quite some time ago, even before the introduction of the new Duration Tru Def.

They changed that OS. They've been re-designed.....again