Selling SPF - Calling Tom Hay and Other Sales Gurus

We offer several options for covering our new foam roofs. We very high grade acrylic elastomeric additional coating over the usual coat, or granules.

I call these 2 upgrades "Improved Hail Resistance," then give a caveat that we're not guaranteeing against hail.

Question is: Am I making a mistake bringing up a negative and am I implying that the roof is easy to hail damage?

I have begun putting this in there in case my competitors say not to use SPF due to hail, but I may be needlessly introducing a negative.

What say you?

Tom, that's a really good price. We plan to add another foam rig in the near future, I'll be sure to contact them.

Roofguy Said: Tom, good points.

We have a couple of competitors who badmouth SPF, saying it is too easy to damage with hail and their insurance company might cancel them if they go with SPF. I tell my customer that they say these things, mostly because they can get into mod bits for under $100, but it takes at least $100,000+ to get into SPF in an industrial level. They cant do SPF so they badmouth it.

Tim,

The dollar amount you are talking was correct quite a few years ago.

Today my Old Company SprayEZ.com sells Full Trailer Units with everything for under $25K for 20 Pound Per Minute units. Full Trailer Units for 40 Pounds per minute for $40K.

Thats the trailer, Air Compressor, Generator, Transfer pumps Hose, Gun and Machine.

Nope, I get no commision or bonus, I am on a buy out.

The person that dictates your success is the guy pulling the trigger, knowing how, knowing when he can and more importantly knowing when not to spray.

Roofguy Said: Tom, good points.

We have a couple of competitors who badmouth SPF, saying it is too easy to damage with hail and their insurance company might cancel them if they go with SPF. I tell my customer that they say these things, mostly because they can get into mod bits for under $100, but it takes at least $100,000+ to get into SPF in an industrial level. They cant do SPF so they badmouth it.

Tim,

That dollar amount may have been true years ago but my old company SprayEZ.com now sells a full Trailer Rig with everything needed for less than 25K for a 20 Pound Per Minute Machine and 40K for full Trailer unit with everything for 40 Pounds per Minute. Nope, I don't get commision or bonus but the days of 80-100K are gone.

That was way before my time I was still in high school and college. :)

theroofmedic Said: In 2010 Phoenix was a perfect testing area for SPF and hail. In that market foam was installed with several different surfaces, just coating alone, or Shasta #9 embedded in the coating, and then with a cementitious surface. Foam was virtually destroyed (especially older roofs); foam with granules sustained damaged but was considered by some repairable (depending on the individual insurance carrier), and foam with cementitious held up pretty well.

I recently inspected two properties almost side by side (Phoenix Market), owned by the same entity- one has a SPF roof with standard 3 gallons per square elastomeric coating and the other had a SPF with cementitious coating- The standard SPF had serious hail damage while the cementitious had virtually no damage... You may want to look at that type of surface. But beware there are several issues with cementitious surfaces that you should be aware of, especially when it comes to repairing the surface. Just an opinion from my personal experience.

Lets see. In AZ back in the 1980's a product by the name Thermo Compound ruled that land. Orland Bonquidi was the owner, Bob Hutchinson was the MFG's rep. The Spec called for Clay Emulsion with small Pea Gravel at 300Pounds per hundred Sq Ft into the wet emulsion. The Thermo Compound was an early type Portland Cement with titanium dioxide and polyvinal acetate so it was a white cemintitous coating which was applied over the gravel with a rotar stator pump. The roof came with a 20 year bond by Western Manufactures Trust. The company has been sold many times since as Orland passed away.

TomHay Said:

Roofguy Said: Tom, good points.

We have a couple of competitors who badmouth SPF, saying it is too easy to damage with hail and their insurance company might cancel them if they go with SPF. I tell my customer that they say these things, mostly because they can get into mod bits for under $100, but it takes at least $100,000+ to get into SPF in an industrial level. They cant do SPF so they badmouth it.

Exactly right on the Texas A&M angle. I use this case study in every single bid package I send out: http://www.411energyservices.com/pdf/Case-Study-TexasAM.pdf

Tim,

If you remember from my very first post on the Roofers Coffee Shop I was bashed and trashed on SPF :laugh: but I some how over came it. If I dont hear someone bad mouthing foam I just dont feel like life is right.

Doing this since 1969 I have had to win quite a few arguments. Like Foam, I survived. :)

Yeah, seems like I remember some idiot arguing with you about foam. :-)

Roofguy Said: Tom, good points.

We have a couple of competitors who badmouth SPF, saying it is too easy to damage with hail and their insurance company might cancel them if they go with SPF. I tell my customer that they say these things, mostly because they can get into mod bits for under $100, but it takes at least $100,000+ to get into SPF in an industrial level. They cant do SPF so they badmouth it.

Exactly right on the Texas A&M angle. I use this case study in every single bid package I send out: http://www.411energyservices.com/pdf/Case-Study-TexasAM.pdf

Tim,

If you remember from my very first post on the Roofers Coffee Shop I was bashed and trashed on SPF :laugh: but I some how over came it. If I don't hear someone bad mouthing foam I just don't feel like life is right.

Doing this since 1969 I have had to win quite a few arguments. Like Foam, I survived. :)

Tom, good points.

We have a couple of competitors who badmouth SPF, saying it is too easy to damage with hail and their insurance company might cancel them if they go with SPF. I tell my customer that they say these things, mostly because they can get into mod bits for under $100, but it takes at least $100,000+ to get into SPF in an industrial level. They can't do SPF so they badmouth it.

Exactly right on the Texas A&M angle. I use this case study in every single bid package I send out: http://www.411energyservices.com/pdf/Case-Study-TexasAM.pdf

Roofguy Said: We offer several options for covering our new foam roofs. We very high grade acrylic elastomeric additional coating over the usual coat, or granules.

I call these 2 upgrades Improved Hail Resistance, then give a caveat that were not guaranteeing against hail.

Question is: Am I making a mistake bringing up a negative and am I implying that the roof is easy to hail damage?

I have begun putting this in there in case my competitors say not to use SPF due to hail, but I may be needlessly introducing a negative.

What say you?

Tim,

Unlike other roof systems when applied properaly water can not travel lateraly through closed cell Urethane Foam.

If you look it up the SuperDome was pelted by Hail in the 1980's. An investagation was done and multi millions of dollars were spent trying to figure out what to do.

During the investagation they even found bullet holes, but, the roof still did not leak.

Finaly after spending as much as it would have cost to re roof they elected to caulk and recoat, this was a tough Aliphatic Urethane elastomer with higher physical properties than any Single Ply.

We all know the end to that story, in 2000 they elected to scarify the roof to 1/4 inch of foam and put a EPDM fully adhered on. Few years later, Hurricane comes by takes it off like a kite. The 1/4 inch of foam that was not taken off is what waterproofed and saved the sheltered victims lifes. It was re foamed after the Hurricane and again a Aliphatic Urethane was elected for the Top Coat.

In many parts of the United States (not Florida) they apply gravel over the foam on flat decks, pretty cheap way to go for protection, they only coat the stacks etc.

You have Texas A&M, do they not risk hail.

I simply had an exclusion for Acts of God but never had to use it as our roofs stayed during Hurricane Andrew (1992) some being around for 20 years prior and still alive and doing fine.

Thanks guys. We use an old version of a standard NRCA warranty which specifically excludes hail.

I'll stop mentioning it.

There are similar tactic used in roof evaluations. The insurance company and lenders want to know how many years are left in a roofing system. No one I know has that crystal ball. Many estimates on years of service are wrong. It is an opinion. Perhaps if you wanted to continue the adventure this might be the path. "IMO"

B) :) :) B) Deep Down In Florida Where The Sun Shines Damn Near Every Day

In 2010 Phoenix was a perfect testing area for SPF and hail. In that market foam was installed with several different surfaces, just coating alone, or Shasta #9 embedded in the coating, and then with a cementitious surface. Foam was virtually destroyed (especially older roofs); foam with granules sustained damaged but was considered by some repairable (depending on the individual insurance carrier), and foam with cementitious held up pretty well.

I recently inspected two properties almost side by side (Phoenix Market), owned by the same entity- one has a SPF roof with standard 3 gallons per square elastomeric coating and the other had a SPF with cementitious coating- The standard SPF had serious hail damage while the cementitious had virtually no damage... You may want to look at that type of surface. But beware there are several issues with cementitious surfaces that you should be aware of, especially when it comes to repairing the surface. Just an opinion from my personal experience.

Mike H your spot on! Finding an edge is difficult when there is a lot of competition. I am quite certain Tim installs a very fine commercial roofing system. Seeing many many damages from hail, it could be perceived as deceptive and a possible liability.....IMO Tim you have answered your own question. B) :) :) B) Deep Down In Florida Where The Sun Shines Damn Near Every Day

Tim,

You've already answered your own question. With roots in the MFG world, you probably don't need to bother with this, but if so, research "implied merchantability"... then quit talking about hail.

And if you don't stop, you better be certain that every customer to whom hail was ever mentioned gets a clearly worded warranty with a hail exclusion, or you're gonna be buying some ruufs. Might even want to have the customer sign a copy of the warranty for your records.