Roofing Licensure Yes or No?

Well, I left at 10 am this morning to go get all the licenses and the permit. After driving for 30 minutes to arrive at the county substation, I walked in and looked around for the Business License area. Couldn't find it so I walked over to the information area where there was a long line and waited. About the time my feet started hurting they called me up and I asked where to get the business license. Guy says I have to go downtown. ( about 30 more minutes and not somewhere you want to have to go ) So I go to leave but he screams across the room just before I was about to walk through the doors saying he told me wrong and that I need to go to booth 14 and just stand there and wait that someone would come up to help me. Some 20 minutes later a lady finally came up and asked do I need a business license. Everything went pretty smoothly from there and I acquired a state and county license.

My next stop was the city courthouse. I was surprised to discover that there was no waiting and acquired the city license pretty quickly after paying an extra fee because I had received a stop work order.

Next, I drive over to the city building inspections department for the permit. Parking was very limited and it took a while to get a spot but I finally did and then walked up to the door only to discover a sign that said "Out to lunch will return in one hour" :side:

So I drove down the road to the local waffle house and had some lunch myself instead of waiting in the parking lot. When I returned they were indeed open again and I acquired the permit after paying yet another extra fee due to the stop work order.

The lady also informed me that from now on "in their town" when I'm working on a roof and discover any type of rotted wood, I have to replace said wood and then call the inspection department to come inspect it before I can install any roofing over it. She gave me a number to call and said use extension three. :silly:

I've never heard of anything of the sort anywhere in this entire state. I don't know how they can enforce such a rule but I get the eerie feeling somebody's ceiling is going to cave in after a thunderstorm pops up while waiting for the inspector.

This is a somewhat new city in the area that used to be just part of the county and they are foaming at the mouth for some cash.

The whole "ordeal" took about 4 hours! :angry:

But hey, I'm a true Pro now because I've got some new papers! :laugh:

Thought I was done with this thread - Guess not I'd like to share a little FUBAR I had to endure just the other day.....

Good intentions, (I suppose), & typical gov't bureaucracy gone biserko - I can understand those in states lacking licensing &/or in states/municipalities that think they're doing the right thing. Frustrating

Had a builder friend call & ask if I still had my Denver GC license - He had a major renovation project to do but no license, I said, no problem, I've been procrastinating about renewing my license in Denver since moving back & hadn't really wanted to do work in the concrete jungle anyhow - This was a good excuse to go get it done.

Well! I'm SOL to renew my license I had from 1992 - 2006. Have to "start all over" the gal says.....Need 4 yrs work experience within the last ten yrs. Doesn't matter I was previously licensed, that I've been doing this for 34yrs as a builder/GC. Had a license in just about every county/city in Colorado, state licenses in CA & Utah.

I haven't worked for a company as an employee in 34 yrs! There wasn't any reasoning with her.

So, apparently the ONLY way you can qualify for a GC license in Denver is if you've worked/accumulated 4yrs work experience as an employee within the last 10 yrs or you go fetch notarized letters from a zillion different owners you've built commercial bldgs for in the last 10 yrs, hoping they add up to 4yrs accumulated construction time.

But you can go get a "C" license for residential or a trade such as roofing with little effort.

The irony of it is that you're probably not a knuckle-head if you're building office bldgs & such - Ya think they'd be a bit more concerned with residential contractors who inter-react with naive homeowners - That's the license that ought to be tough.

JMHO

Interesting what the public's perception is about licensing . . .

The local media has been shining a light on the nefarious activities of some local bad actors. Homeowner gets burned, turns to the media, and a 1 minute video detailing the situation appears. One homeowner, when presented with a (newly purchased, that day) insurance cert., made the assumption that if insured, then licensed. These guys have no fear as any court awarded damages are not collectible . . . they live from beer to beer. Having no assets gives them a free pass . . .

Unbelievable. Furthermore, determining compliance with licensing requirements is only the very first step in contractor vetting . . . one would think.

I carry a license to comply with state law and as a warm fuzzy for my customers. Licensing says nothing about my capabilities to execute or my integrity.

There are a few bands of 4-6 guys who do pretty well. With some motivated laborers, a few shinglers can knock out large houses pretty quickly, this we all know.

One town over checks their license but many of them don't get caught in the back neighborhoods. Usually they just say they are working for XXX company and they have a license and give that company a few bucks. Even if they did work directly for that roofer, it's technically illegal because the qualifying party who passed the exam is supposed to be highly involved in the project.

One crew actually got shut down in my town a few weeks ago on a Tuesday. It was a job I bid on last fall and my Dad had bid 15 years ago. They came back on Sunday and knocked it out.

I'm fixing an EPDM apartment building that was roofed by some locals who used to be in business. Terrible work and now they are "out of business" but they still contract jobs. I saw their dump truck at a 400sq project I bid on this fall. :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry:

The biggest problem with competition around here is the workman's comp exclusions. There is absolutely no way I could work for $80/sq off and on and pay workmans comp. I'd have to get a real job.

I like having the licensing system now that we have it in place. I *think* I'd like it to be better enforced. The only thing I don't like about licensing is that it levels the perception of quality. Because Roofer B has a license the homeowner suddenly assumes they are as qualified as Roofer A which we all know is BS.

Same here Chuck. They've all jumped on the "Money for nothing and chicks for free" bandwagon.

Nothing but a tax to the homeowner and a hassle for the contractors. As Tim said, they just like playing with their puppets on a daily basis.

Vaa Fakaosifolau: " I hope they don't get the idea here to go down the track like Alabama where you need a different licence for each county!! I cover 3 provinces, but really do most of my work in 1"

Mike, I work in 5 different counties. Within those there are probably over 50 city governments. So according to this, I'm supposed to have 56 different licenses. One for the state, one for each of the 5 counties and 50 more, one for each city. :woohoo:

Thank you for the very kind words and glad for any chance to be of service. I'll do my best not to let you down. I'm often amazed at how we all impact each other.

I appreciate that, Egg. Your patience and reason are always far beyond my capability.

Kind of hate to let a summation put an end to a perfectly interesting discussion, but so be it. Nevertheless, just to indulge myself in a little interpersonal, non-rational chatter I'll say this. I've been watching this board carefully for almost as long as it's been in existence, seen a lot of fascinating roofers show up and participate. Both good stuff and bad stuff. I tend to remember what they say about the business end because that's really why we're here, but I also pay pretty close attention to what they say about themselves as people and I deduce as much as I can from all that.

Probably don't see eye to eye with your politics, Tim, as a general rule. Maybe yes, may no depending on the issue, but definitely way left of your center. Wouldn't presume to know anything about your own personal pain and suffering other than what you have felt like sharing, but I take notice that you are hardworking, quite multi-talented, creative, articulate, interested in excellence, blessed with a beautiful extended family as evidenced by the picture you posted, and in summation I'd have to say you were a champion before the accident, you're a champion now, and as far as I can tell, nothing has really changed.

In summation:

I may not be right, I'm usually not. But I have bought and paid for the right to my opinions in the roofing industry and to cling to those outdated Libertarian precepts. I wear it like a badge of honor.

Seriously, I enjoy being on the outer edges of the norm, because the well-worn path isn't where the cool stuff happens. And it's crowded there. I don't like crowds. And admittedly, I sometimes find myself taking the other side of an issue just because nobody is occupying that territory.

Perhaps the answer is to prosecute the homeowner if they use unlicenced tradesmen?

If memory serves, they already do that in Florida.

That happens to be the clear break point for me in the freedom discussion. I will work on my own house if I choose to. To be honorable, you have to be willing to pay the price exacted, but so long as you are willing to do that, Civil Disobedience is an ancient and venerable choice of action.

Not a newcomer to that one; only so much I'm willing and able to stand.

Just for the record I understand and sympathize with the arguments against allowing bureaucratic inroads into our lives that are already burdensome enough. I do. As an old poster on this board (JET) used to say all the time, "Believe me." I just find that the benefits of state licensure to the entire industry really so far outweigh the nominal costs ...don't care to repeat myself...that in comparison the 6 ft. full fall arrest rule OSHA came up with is so much more invasive, insulting, and just flat-out stupid that when you talk about freedom my head tends to start spinning and smoke starts coming out my ears.

Here's reference to Max Weber, 1864-1920, courtesy of Wikipedia:

"While recognising bureaucracy as the most efficient form of organisation and even indispensable for the modern state, Weber also saw it as a threat to individual freedoms and the ongoing bureaucratisation as leading to a "polar night of icy darkness", in which increasing rationalisation of human life traps individuals in the aforementioned "iron cage" of bureaucratic, rule-based, rational control...."