Roofing Licensure Yes or No?

I'm opposed, but I want to make sure I have the facts.

In your state with roofing licensure:

* Can a fireman (as one example) with no license install a shingle roof for a neighbor? * Can he install it on his own house? * How much do you spend to maintain licensure and abide by their rules? * How much has it cut the work being done by fly-by-nights? * Has it become more onerous and unreasonable over time? * Who enforces it?

I'm not saying all roofers that do primarily residential are flakes - There are some truly fine residential focused roofers out there - I'm generalizing....and I believe most ethical residential contractors would agree.

FWIW - Actually, authentic state contractor licensing has very little effect concerning predominantly commercial roofing operations, as they typically operate in somewhat of an acceptable ethical demeanor - Usually run by truly qualified individuals, who mostly operate within the professional atmosphere of gov't entities & the like, therefore they are by nature forced to comply so-to-speak, if they want to continue in business.

It's in the residential field where licensing has a dramatic effect. This is where "contractors" have a field day with the general public/typical naive consumer. It's also why these types pursue the residential market - They only need a silver-tongue. Most have very limited actual roofing or business knowledge.

To expand a bit - The intent of state contractor licensing is to protect the public/consumers - Proper bldg.codes/safety is enforced at local municipality level.

Here's a scenario: In Colorado, (no state licensing), Mary Sue hires a contractor to re-roof her home - Something goes awry - the contractor never follows-up. Mary Sue must chase the contractor down, maybe sue - probably not - Mary Sue ends up hiring another contractor to fix the job.

In California, (state licensing), Mary Sue calls the contractors' license board - License board contacts Roofer - Roofer resolves promptly because if not; His license is suspended or revoked & he's done.

It's really that simple......

Wow - Been a bit - I did skim-over some replies.....

Vaa; Yes & no to the qualifications to obtain a contractors license in the USA. Most all the western states have authentic, (for lack of better words), contractor licensing. East of the continental divide, (Colorado & east), with the exception of Florida are pretty-much a free-for-all. Licensing is much as the fishing license analogy- You pay a fee & whalla! You be a contractor!

It's a whole different story out west; There's a trade knowledge test, a business knowledge test, as well as credit worthiness, verified experience in the profession you wish to engage in business, a bond is required and sometimes workers compensation insurance is a requirement. I remember it taking about 9 mos. to obtain my contractors' license in 1983.

It's not rocket-science, but the tests were difficult enough to justify schools most guys would pay to help them pass the tests.

I can guaranty you that 90% of the clowns masquerading as contractors here in Colorado would never make it in California, Nevada, Utah, New Mexico, Arizona, Washington, Oregon or Idaho.....Never happen.

Chuck Said: Everything is abused at various times by inexperienced folks and jacklegs. A professional with over three decades of experience doesnt need some pencil pusher standing over his shoulder watching while he changes out a sheet of plywood. ;)

Exactly! And who does more damage to the property owner and the roofer, a jackleg roofer who could have been researched by the property owner, or an incompetent inspector?

The root of all of this, imo, is the Walmartisation and Amazonisation of society, a big box mentality that is conditioning consumers to shop price. Too many customers rush to find the cheapest roof, and roofers naturally cut corners to do that, and thus our industry's reputation suffers to the point that people think roofers need more oversight.

Everything is abused at various times by inexperienced folks and jacklegs. A professional with over three decades of experience doesn't need some pencil pusher standing over his shoulder watching while he changes out a sheet of plywood. ;)

Chuck Said: Ive been roofing for over three decades and one of the simplest things involved in roofing is replacing decking.

You say that but my experience is that the decking is one of the worst and most abused areas of construction out there. I once redecked a wood shingle/layover job with OSB radiant barrier. I actually removed over half the 1x4 lathe (so the radiant barrier would work), and laid the new sheathing perpendicular (up and down) to the lathe. No other roofer does it this way. I had to leave a small portion exposed before dry-in for inspection. The inspector passed it but I don't think he even realized what I did.

That "guns" deterrent Mike spoke of is what likely prevented Japan from invading mainland US.

Incidentally, our recent "I'm Your Huckleberry" campaign was a gamble as it likely cost us some work. But the gamble paid off handsomely. Turns out that niche market of gun owners who need roofs, is less nichy than I thought.

Well said Mike!

I too have accumulated some ammo, and would make it available for free to anyone who needs it and doesn't have the means to get it.

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than those attending too small a degree of it." ---Thomas Jefferson

Training is good but it's hard to learn how to roof on a piece of paper. On the job experience is the only true way someone can become a good roofer. Of course you have to be learning from someone else who knows what they are doing. I know some guys that have been doing as much wrong as right for 30 plus years. I'm not so sure some test would change that at all because I think most of it is due to what kind of person you are. You either posses pride, integrity, honesty etc... or you don't. If you do then you will strive to get better over time in order to get better results and you will achieve exactly that sooner or later but if you don't then you probably never will.

Government entities are slow and inefficient. When they become involved in and take control of something it usually just creates a hardship for the majority because of all the rules and regulations they create due to the actions of a small minority. Like the one city that told me I have to get any roof decking replacement inspected before I can roof over it. I've been roofing for over three decades and one of the simplest things involved in roofing is replacing decking. Here in the south, especially during the summer months, there can be absolutely nothing at all showing on the weather radar and a severe thunderstorm can develop right over your head and dump a tremendous amount of water in a big time hurry. Who needs this kind of inconvenience and hardship?

Been a busy month and haven't checked in for a while. I think this the best thread to show up on RCS for a good while. Excellent read. Egg, never disappoints.

I can put myself firmly on the far right side, proudly standing beside Tim on this one.

I've worked too hard to create something better, something different, and something too worthy of a bureaucrat to put an approval stamp on. I firmly believe in buyer beware, and have no use for the lower denominator criteria of a state licensure program, nor for the standards of our local building authority, who don't follow their own "standards" when doing work on their own facility.

And, far more dear to my heart that roofing, are guns, that protect the freedoms, shore to shore, that I hold so dear. I'm proud to be one of those that owns, trains, trains others, and is ready to supply weapons and ammo to those in need should the need to defend said freedoms ever arise.

Vaa, NZ is not the largest per capita holder of guns in the world. Not even close. If a nation ever thinks it's time to take on the USofA, they better bring the nukes, because this is a nation ready to defend itself.

Vaa Fakaosifolau Said: Doesnt stop the criminals getting hold of guns and doing holdups though. .

I think you just made the case against roofing licensure. :-)

No doubt we are different than where you are, Vaa. If I'm not mistaken, you can't own guns there, correct?

Regardless, my point is the same. Californians - as an example - may think that licensing works for them but it is an entirely different mentality between there and Texas. If you tried to pass the same gun laws in Texas that they have in California, there would be a revolt! Literally! The two aren't the same.

Chuck Said: To me a License means nothing more than the fact that the License holder paid money to obtain a piece of paper. If a person has never fished before but decides they would like to give it a try and pays money to obtain a fishing license that does not make them a good fisherman. So youve been dating someone for a while and the two of yas decide to get married so you go down and get a marriage license. That doesnt make either person good at marriage relationships. I guess thats why the majority of marriages end in divorce. Then theres the good old drivers license. Weve all seen these licensed drivers out there right? Need I say more? :laugh:

Great analogies!

There are some exceptions by virtue of the required training and having to demonstrate competency. There are no stupid pilots, the training is just too intense and the requirement for multi-tasking multiple complex systems simultaneously, weeds out the slackards. Not so with roofing licensure.

To me a License means nothing more than the fact that the License holder paid money to obtain a piece of paper. If a person has never fished before but decides they would like to give it a try and pays money to obtain a fishing license that does not make them a good fisherman. So you've been dating someone for a while and the two of ya's decide to get married so you go down and get a marriage license. That doesn't make either person good at marriage relationships. I guess that's why the majority of marriages end in divorce. Then there's the good old drivers license. We've all seen these "licensed" drivers out there right? Need I say more? :laugh: