New business start

Hello Folks;

I am writing this post after about a two week period of just watching and reading. I understand the concept of this message board and I may get flamed but I hope I don't. I have been working as a salesman for a local roofing company (NOT storm chasers). We do a fair number of repair jobs and even a little light commercial. However, our bread and butter is storm damaged roofs. I would say that 90% of what we do is insurance work. I will admit that I have never swung a hammer on a roof (or a nail gun for that matter)my experience is from the sales and estimation side of the business. I'm sure others have come and asked before but I want to start my own business specializing in replacements. Tell me what I'm missing here? I will obtain my contractors license, liability policy and tax ID. I will handle marketing and advertising. I am familiar with quickbooks for accounting. I'm not familiar with Xactimate yet but I shall learn in short order. I have two local crews that will contract the work for me. They carry their own insurance, use their own tools etc. They do great work! Is there some huge glaring reason for me to not do this? I don't hope to do EVERY roof in town, just start fairly small and focus on quality work. Build a referral base and make a comfortable living. I am a stand up guy with strong morals and want to do things the RIGHT way. I would sincerely appreciate any advice from the group. I have learned a bunch by reading posts here and I respect the groups opinions. Thank you in advance.

That's good to know;

Its not so much the amount I'm paid, its how that money is alloted. The bigger point is, I aspire to be more that just a "salesman". The entrepreneurial spirit is something that I believe is within me and I intend to give it a run. I fully intend to be a student of the game and a professional through and through.

Again, thank you all for your suggestions. I have the utmost respect for all of you that are out there getting it done in these tough times. I wish you all lots of hail and wind to brigthen your days ahead!

and here a salesman gets 10% of the total job-and probably about 25% should be total profit,25% about your costs for insurance ,equipment,and dumping of material-50% costs of materials,and labor---Seems that the math says you`re making what a salesman would here.

As an employee that would be welcomed. As an owner or employer, I can imagine most wouldnt do it that way. I'm not quite sure what side of the fence I'm on there. I think, if I had steady trustworthy employees, I would share all the financial info regarding their jobs. I'm an honest guy and I like dealing with the same. I think that if you were to become very profitable, you run the risk of losing good crews. Maybe thats just the way it is. I dont know.

Thanks for the input

I worked for A co. in houston,then Atlanta.they gave you A complete breakdown,I mean complete,of everything to the last detail.materials,labor,etc.then if their was A discrepancy between your jobs,they'd sit down and show you what it was and where. A real open book.

I'm not privy to company overhead figures but I know the job is costed out first. Then the 15% is taken off the top of the job profit. I am then paid 40% of the balance. So I get paid 40% of 85% of the net profit.

"...This process can take months and I have to rely on too many others in the meantime."

" ...employer takes 15% of the top of the job then pays me 40% of the profit after that. I don't know if that's standard in the industry or if its good or bad.

"...Its not so much the process,I don't like, its the percentages."

Where is the overhead figured in these jobs? Is it the fifteen per cent 'off the top'?

would you be interested in an old roofer that speaks spanish and has done this and built homes his whole life?

P.S.I speak spanish cause I was raised in miami,I'm american as can be.

I understand that and it makes sense. This is another reason to look for a field manager.

Thank you

Robby the Roofer Said: Do you have alot of experience truely inspecting your roofs? If you are not comfortable with this process, It might be a wise decision to hire and experience roofer to QC your liabilities part or full time (at least 15 yrs exp). This will keep your contractors honest. It is your company, your liability....protect your interest as much as possible.

Basically,along the lines of what I was thinking. How do you know it`s good work vs. work that looks good from the street ? It`s very important to understand the mechanics of the work you are selling workers can learn to resent you when you don`t have experience in their field,and will oftentimes try to cut you out of the action,because they don`t understand the importance of the work that you do

do you have contact info?

Robby, Thank you. I will look for someone that has the qualifications you list. Sorry to hear about the knee, hope its coming along well. Lane, Thank you too. I think you guys are exactly right as far finding an experienced roofer to oversee field operations. I will make this happen. I'm also a fan of being on the roof working for a while. This will help me to make good decisions in the future as well as lend credibility to the crews. To answer your question about pay, I guess I just want to be in control of the process. At least as much of it as I can. Currently, my employer takes 15% of the top of the job then pays me 40% of the profit after that. I don't know if that's standard in the industry or if its good or bad. I've had situations where final payment has been held by the homeowner (on insurance jobs) until regional has been by to inspect the job. Well, regional in my town is understaffed and under-funded and inspections can sometimes be two to three weeks after completion of the job. Then, if there are any corrections to be made, other is the repair and the re inspect. You see what I'm getting at? Its not so much the process,I don't like, its the percentages. Don't get me wrong, I'm not doing anything out of spite towards my company, I just think I can do it just as well if not better myself, have the pride of ownership of a company that people respect and be more profitable in the process. Anyway, Thank you all again for your professional insight. I really respect your opinions.

Go hail!

---I have a friend who is a good salesman. He also had about 5 years of roofing experience, mostly basic residential. He partnered with a BUR foreman who ran the crew. He did all the paperwork and foreman and crew did all the roofing. They got along well which is a must! Today he is easily a millionaire several times over. The foreman is retired and very well off. I believe they both made over 10k/ month for over 20 years. He stayed within his expertise with mostly residential and small commercial. Roofing 20 years and seldom any problems adds up to some real money ---The main issue I see is your relationship with whatever crew you use. Everyone needs to be on the same page as far as expectations and pay. ---I would strongly recommend you work with the crew as a laborer 1-2 days a week. Get the feel for roofing and what goes on. Then learn installation...and increase your knowledge bit by bit. What you will learn is the time and headaches involved with the many issues that come up regularly. Then when you bid those headaches you know what it takes to get the job done. We call them nuisance issues. Here is a short list that others could add to: 1) roof pitch...steep...how steep...2)low-slope...how low...comp or torch? or ? 3) access...driveway too steep for delivery?...no driveway at all...4) ground protection & issues...beautiful new deck right under a 12/12 tear off?...prized roses?...we did a tear off over a greenhouse with lots of glass...5) patio roof bolted into roofdeck...always a headache...remove supports & jack up patio or flash existing or black mammy existing and go back when it leaks...5) bad brick chimneys that leach and then make you look like a bad roofer...always better to discuss up front and recommend proper repairs NOW rather then 2 years from now when it leaks. 6) all kinds of wood repair, rot, ants, termites, you name it...bees...Tree branches and bushes laying on a leaky roof is almost a sure sign of major bugs. You need permission to prune people's trees and some people would rather not prune and keep their ants. A nuisance issue is a problem that makes the job take more time than normal. That adds to the cost. I have learned the hard way over many years that I want to get paid for solving those problems and the only way to get paid is to recognize them BEFORE I bid the job. ---Starting out you want to keep the crew busy. That will take most of your time. But there will still be time to work on the crew at least part time. Besides you will lower overhead by moving the job along. As for me I work on the roof at least 50% of every job. I set the pace. When I am tearing off a roof in a cloud of dust everyone else is moving at top speed. I only have one speed and that is as fast as I can go. Everyone else either moves just as fast or wonders how I can do things 2x as fast as they can. They catch on quick. That was the way I was trained and it is normal to me. The purpose of learning how to install is to lesson your dependancy upon someone else. Things change...people come and go...whatever...but sooner or later you will need to work on the roof or train someone else. Obviously you will make more money by having others work for you. But still there are times when you may need to fill in. Versatility is the key that gives you more options. ---One other point that is unclear to me. You mention the delay in pay. Would that also be true as a contractor getting paid by the insurance company? That could be a problem as crews must be paid weekly. If you get paid in 60 days you need the cashflow to pay others while waiting for an insurance company to settle. I don't do insurance work so I don't know. ---Good luck...I have always liked roofing. Outdoors...I like physical work...often great views...my own boss...set own hours...jobs change often so always moving on... Lanny

15 yrs may not say it all, but what have you done in the 15 years makes a big difference.

1. Ran crews for over 5 years straight, and worked with many good and bad roofers.....Have a good idea what workwes to watch out for 2. Got tired of running crews and did new contruction roof as a solo man...Saw all the short cuts and code violations (mostly contractors violations) 3. And then three years as a repair tech....saw how badly 1-5 yr old roofs were installed 4. last three yrs as QC for a large firm, through my career, got to see a lot of different things and learned many types of roofs

This would be a person ideal to "partner up with" or hire.

NO...not trying to find a job, just saying...anyways still healing from my major knee reconstruction.

Well, my current employer is not a nationwide company but we do have offices in a couple different locations. We currently do 15-20 roof replacements a month in my area. off the cuff, I'd say the average job here (lets say 20 squares, one layer off and replace with a 30 year dm) brings typically about $6k. Most crews here will work for about $50-$60 a square which includes dump fees. Even adding liberally for insurance, advertising, etc. I think things look pretty good. As a salesman, a job like this will pay me about $400-500 bucks which isnt bad until you figure that I am also a 1099 salesman. I pay my own taxes and insurance. On top of that, I wait for a good chunk of the money to show up.

How much margin is the company you now work for make on an average insurance job in your area? Can you afford to run an above board operation on this margin? Remember that your 2 subcontractors will probably only do 3-4 roofs a week each at best if they are only working for you. If they are established and do good work, they probably have work coming there way already. If your present company is a large nation wide company, they may be happy to net $100.00 profit from each sale. Can you afford to operate and do the same with your overhead burden? Just some random thoughts. Wishing you all the luck.