Just how fast is "fast"

I think we're mostly refering to proficiency, as a form of quality service....

Where speed can equal sloppy, by comparison, so can the slow reflect/result in sloppy/inaccurate work, through ingnorance/thoughtlesness.

Our motto has been "Prompt, Quality Service"...It's been our experience, that most customers appreciate/consider that a significant/positive quality in a contractor.

(We're not talking of the dozen illegals that swarm on a house and complete it in one day...That, could very well reflect "sloppy", and typically is)

Just so you know, all the prefab buildings I've seen around here have such crappy roof jobs, the warranty must be void when they leave the building. Most people get the roofs replaced within 7 years when they get tired of the leaks.

---The reason I was fast at some things was simple: we were paid piece work. And even more important than that I was always racing the guys who were my mentors. ---It was always a race. Race, race, race and then count up at the end of the day. I might have 8 sq on while they had 16. Here I was going at top speed only to find out I was poking along compared to them. ---Well, 5 years of racing and somewhere along the way you get fast. ---My guys are all paid by the hour. No incentive to go fast. No incentive to get faster. They do speed up when I am banging away nearby. I mean the wind generated by my activity kind of blows them along. ---But I do not compliment them on how fast they are. I compliment them on quality. I want quality...perfection...a happy customer. Speed can equal sloppy. I don't want sloppy. I don't want shiners, punctures, etc.

Lanny

I'm not sure of my best any more. Used to be able to average 2 square an hour all day by myself including felting, valleys, etc. My old AJC has grooves in the handle that were worn in by my hand from years of nailing. Minimal waste. Years of experience should teach you how to work with no wasted motions. The way I see it speed is best learned when there is motivation. Piece work. I learned speed doing side jobs. The faster I worked the more money I could make. It also taught me how to use material efficiently because any extra materials was extra money in my pocket. Years of speed roofing is tough on the body. But roofing in general is tough on a person and there comes a time when it catches up to you. I don't pay piece, strictly hourly. I am not looking for super speed, just consistant production, done safely, with high quality work that I don't have to send somebody back to correct. My crew works as a team and I try to sell my work based on quality. Are my guys as good as I was? Not a chance, but they're a lot younger! B) And I need them as much as they need me.

The pre-fab/factory built/modular component construction method(s), are nothing new.....Been going on as long as I can recall......We've participated in several forms or another, over the last 3 decades.

We, (USA), always look to over the pond for inovation, but typically foul it up, in attempts to improve/"cheapen-up", so-to-speak. i.e., concrete tile roofing, EIFS, for a couple of examples. And lest us not forget the progressive/socialistic movement now in play.... ;)

Efficiency shows!

If you want to know what the future holds, youi should look to places over seas that are booming and see what they are doing. Lots of prefab stuff, and things are all being done in the factory. Entire buildings (multi story ones at that) being assembled on site in a few days. It is coming.

I know I don't come anywhere close to the production numbers posted here. I think the only time we ever tried for a personal record was one roof years ago where I gun nailed 32 bundles (10 square) of T-locks in 45 minutes. Square side 5/12 with 2 plumbing vents. Had two helpers setting and the starter course was on and the bundles unwrapped and laid out before we timed ourselves. Have noticed over the years that due to being efficient in planning and executing the plan we were producing more with a smaller crew at a higher quality than a lot of the competition. Had one customer that watched us from his lawn chair do four homes on the street before doing his and he said we worked like a fine oiled machine. He said that it looked like I was conducting an orchestra with every worker not missing a beat. One of the best stated compliments I ever received.

O/S, I think the day will come that when you build a house you will be able to submit your plans for some kind of moulded engineered decorative prefab panels up to 12' wide and 50' long that will arrive by crane truck and be installed directly to the roof trusses eliminating the need for sheeting the roof. Everything could be designed to interlock with complete valley sections, vented ridge sections and complete dormers. The whole roof installed in a matter of hours.

Tim would like hearing you talk like that.

The more I think about it, the more convinced I am that crappy workmanship has always been in abundance, not just now. The speed varies from place to place and generation to generation.

As far as comp goes, asphalt prices and availability probably have more to say about its future than anything. I believe the quality standards and technical data are probably way better known and readily accessible now than before.

It would be possible Tom, but the nice walkers would have to be there. I guess in reroofing that would be a possibility because there are a lot of old homes out there.

Hey, why not coat some of these shingle roofs? If you can tear them off and reroof them, why not just spray on a coating with color. They do it all the time with burger King and Micky d's It can't be much worse than a lot of the things they are doing now. A lot cheaper too.

"Charging more & giving less"....absoluely! That's seems to be the name of the game, these days, when it comes to traditional services.

I can't help but feel some sort of guilt/frustration, as it may relate to passing on the inefficiences of the current workforce onto the consumer.

On another note; attoday's piece work wages, a young, energetic, industrious worker could realistically make six-figures, if they put their mind to it.

Dubya, It is not just the high nailing, but the nails penatrating the shingles so that they all blow off together that is the problem. the combination of that and the lack of detailing really worries me. We did a roof the other day and at the bottom of a valley, they had done EVERYTHING wrong. It was like they purposely put it together so that it would leak. They cut back the valley flashing short of the bottom, they had a joint in the shingles right at the point of the valley, 2 inches below the valley flashing, the drip was cut short etc etc. and there was a frigging hole at the bottom of the valley that the water ran into. They either don't know, don't want to know or they were high. I see it constantly too.

I am not kidding about something coming along and taking away a lot of the work that we are doing. IF the roofers keep screwing things up as bad as they are, some one somewhere will figure out a way to do it better and cheaper. I see it in concrete and with new building techniques and computers, and one of these days the chickens are going to come home to roost. We are charging more and giving less and that is a sure recipe for disaster. IMHO anyway.

egg: Maybe subconsciously I was, as mood enhancement is very important from time to time. ;)

OS: Yea, it's all good. I joined this forum to increase my knowledge; I want all the answers. Until we had a huge hail storm a few years back, we were known as the fastest TO crew around. Those stormers are quick at "shingle replacement" though. It's a GREAT feeling to hire guys who've worked w/ other roofers, only to have them quit by the end of the day because they didn't know roofers could move like that. From the point we show up on the job, until we leave, nobody stops moving except during breaks. That's the way it's got to be to pay the bills and impress the homeowners.

" but if there is not an improvement in quality, efficiency, and general roofing knowledge, something is going to come along and replace shingles and shingle roofing"

I agree, but I wouldn't mind if the jokers stayed around for the sake of my career! Many guys around here are throwing AG metal roofs on now, because of the lost faith in dimensional shingles. High nails make everybody look bad.

Jerry...I remember those days well....(BUR), (2) plies JM asbestos finishing felt in trowled mastic, on all metal, (22-24 ga.)...Some guys would intentionally stick the head of the nail onto the mastic-cocered hammer head face, then drive it home....Nails at 3" O.C...mastic all over everything...uhg, what a mess....If fact we had a specific flashing crew on a military housing project we wre doing...That's all they did, day in & day out...sdread mastic/nail metal/strip-in metal....

Hi OS The best i have ever done is 22 squares 3 tab 5/12 felt, edging, and shingles on roof in 10 hours . hand nailing ,new house,two half gables on front and vents on back. Talking about hand nailing reminded me about putting metal on a b.u.r. once ,I was nailing a joint and the caulk got on the face of my hammer. Driving a nail through double metal I tap a couple of times,the nail stuck to the hammer first tap .second tap I drove it in my finger. that will slow you down and make you watch what you're doing.