IMetal roofing underlaymets

That's awesome tinner!!!!!.....and that's about the size of it.....might as well be the gospel.....

Underlay is OK till I get to it. If it's in the way, I cut it back.

Here's an article about underlay.

The execs at a major shingle manufacturer felt they needed to increase sales somehow. Memos were sent to all departments in search of ideas. Some months went by and a fellow in marketing wanted to present an idea. A couple, really. He met with the execs one day and said “Let’s sell felt. The only people in the market are Bird and JM.” The execs all spoke up and said their entire market share there was new construction! “Only builders buy the felt to keep their projects dry until the roofers come and install the shingles. The roofers are often installing our shingles without felt. And it can’t be used on a re roof. What the heck do we want to sell felt for? The only felt we need is the 12” rag for our shingles. There will never be a need or market for us there. It could open us up to some new liability! And it isn‘t used under tin! Follansbee will void their warranty if they find felt under tin. We can‘t sell it there. There isn’t a roof in the world that requires felt…. How are you planning on selling THAT?” Get out of here with that hair-brained scheme!” “Please! Just give me a minute and you’ll see the logic! Please!” “You have 10 minutes.” “Here’s the deal. Our 15 year shingles regularly last 17-22 years minimum. And our 5 year warranty never needs to be honored, right?” Nods, and “yeses” from the execs. ‘So?” “ We will need to market ourselves as a leader to be envied. Let’s offer a ’7 year’ warranty ’if’ installers use our felt under our shingles! It’s a win-win. The shingles will go the term with or without the felt, but we can open up a whole new market and give glossy brochures to dealers to hand to installers and it only costs us pennies. The installers will do our marketing for us! We’ll always be able to ‘prove’ installation error if any warranty issues ever occur anyway. We can’t lose….It‘s a win-win and we get a larger market share all around.” “Research is showing that anybody less than 50 year old gets caught up in the hype that glossy brochures, TV ads, and radio ads spout. Any glossy ads we print will be taken as gospel. And it’s real easy to brainwash people if we were to do TV ads. Ignorant people soak them up like sponges! Older people tend to take ads with a grain of salt and figure that if it‘s worth being on TV, it‘ll be announced during the news as a news item. They seem to know the difference.” “The established and older roofers will never fall for that line.., but we could give it a try for a limited period of time. It’s your job on the line though!” “No problem Boss. We’ve been looking hard into this and we believe some hard pressed companies will use the ploy to increase their sales. And the newcomers to the roofing industry won’t know any better anyway. We won’t tool up for this, we’ll order from other makers and have our names stamped on the rolls. If this takes off, we’ll see about tooling up to make it ourselves, maybe. Who knows for sure. I do believe we can even make a market for it in the metal roofing side of things. Bill, Bob, myself a couple of others are looking into now.” “Joe and a small team are working on their own time to see if they can come up with some form of sticky felt. They heard a rumor that a company is working on a product that can be used on eaves to help with ice-dam issues. If it’s as good as rumor has it, even jacklegs will be able to do roofs with too many leaks further helping us avoid nay warranty issues. If it has merit, we we can come up with a marketing gimmick for it too.” “Just think ‘underlay’ and we’ll market the term and use it all the time until people start forgetting the roof itself and the underlay becomes the priority. Like I mentioned before, there is plenty up sell potential here and no liability beyond the pennies on the dollar we’re already liable for anyway. How can we lose?” “OK, we’ll also have legal look into all facets before anything goes public! One slip and you’re fired!” “Remember, this will have nothing to do with roof performance, it’s all about marketing! ”The New buzzword will be ‘Underlay!’ We will be working on selling an underlay for other standard systems like EPDM,TPO, and the like. It’ll be a harder sell, but if they’ll buy the one idea, I believe that in time we can sell them the other.”

egg: My cousin finally went to a holistic healer after having lots of aches and pains. She got off the bottled water and is now doing better.

I will call her today and check w/ her since I too have too many aches and pains. Thanks for the reminder, I'll keep you updated.

What about everything else sold in plastic, like juices? Milk? My Dad was a mlikman in the pre-plastic era BTW. It came in cartons and glass containers

That's exactly right. Most of us have a healthy streak of rebelliousness alive and well within us, but that streak weakens with age and you have to pick your fights.

The other thing about underlayments that concerns me is that (yes, we need to make a serious effort to conserve resources, but...) we have a whole army of people out there now who are devoting all their time to making buildings air-tight. They are now calculating exactly how much air exchange needs to be brought into the structures by mechanical means because nothing breathes anymore.

I don't care for it. It's not natural, it's not friendly, it's not healthy, and it's not sane. Let me say it more clearly: It is insane.

That's one of the main reasons I'm putting an emphasis on Deck Armor.

After all that is said and done, it, too, is synthetic. The world is filling up with plastic so why not live in a plastic baggy with an air hose to the outside world. My brother considers himself enlightened but he drinks "pure" water in plastic bottles. After the umpteenth time of politely turning down the offer of one, I had to get blunt and ask him what it was that he wasn't understanding. I told him "I don't drink water out of plastic... it's toxic. Thank you for the thought, but please don't offer me any more and please don't drink any more yourself. They are bad for you, especially when you let them heat up in the afternoon."

That's a valid point wywoody!

Another reason would be if an inspector (or other roofer) convinces the owner that it should have been there because all metal manufacturers recommend it be there. The cost of defending the omission in court would scare me into having it there no matter whether it worked or not.

Why would you want to add it later?

The only rationale' I can muster, is possibly the roofer failed, and must therefore, rely on a waterproof membrane, rather than the primary roof covering?

Tinner, adding an underlayment on initial installation would add what, about 15%. My guess for adding it later would be 250%. That fact alone would make it standard for me.

You cut your seams and sauder at the chimney?i used to stop about 5 inchs short and roll a face flashing in and lock in the sides and back pan.Which kind of bull do you use for counter flashimg? :laugh:

Why no rosin paper tin man?

Awesome pics tinner.....The locals here, would go into shock!.....They haven't a clue how to install a roof, without the securety of an I&W underlayment, to make up for their incompetency :laugh:

Thanks for clarifying Tom! :) I thought I had lost my clarity when reading the question and was dumbfounded by it. :blink: It did come out of left field! Yes, many of mine are free of underlay and if I use it, it gets cut back at walls, etc. so my metal can join together w/o interference. My favorite underlay is 1 x 8's.

You honestly threw me!

That's correct tinner, and I believe we have similar experiences/knowledge regarding underlayment dependency, as per previous threads. I'm the one with the tile roof at 7,500', in a severe snow region, on spaced sheathing w/o any underlayment what-so-ever.

Anyhow.....I must admit, I experienced a momentary loss of reason when I posted the question....I was sucked-in by the overwhelming local underlayment dependent competitors I must deal with....They're squabbling about which I&W is better, on a particualr project we're competing for.

Tinner...Thanks for the moment of clarity! However, I'm not dealing with, (how can I say this?)......... authentic roofers? So, "when in Rome".........."

Of the three you list, I've only tried the Grace. Of the three I use;

Grace HT pros:Good product, sets the standard.

cons: pricey, paper-based release paper means it has to be kept dry(a factor up here)

Titanium PSU pros: best traction, best UV protection

cons: stinky

Certainteed Winterguard HT pros: repositionable after being stuck down, thickest

cons: slick

I agree with tinner. Nowadays we all mostly use some form of Hi-temp Sap. whatever you use it should not stick to the deck and the metal.