Has the NRCA gone mad?

NRCA's Associate Director of Technical Services Mark S. Graham states: "The NRCA believes too much emphasis is placed on maufacturers' exact fastener placement locations."

Now get this: Also, research has shown- and a number of shingle manufacturers agree- once self-sealing asphalt shingles have sealed, fastener placement has little effect on asphalt shingles wind resistance and overall performance.

He went on to mention reasonable variances to manufacturers tolerances being acceptable without stating what reasonable is.

This all in the "Letters" column on page 10 of this months Professional Roofing mag. I will save my comments for later.

twill59 Said:..........

Now get this: Also, research has shown- and a number of shingle manufacturers agree- once self-sealing asphalt shingles have sealed, fastener placement has little effect on asphalt shingles wind resistance and overall performance.

He went on to mention reasonable variances to manufacturers tolerances being acceptable without stating what reasonable is........ I will save my comments for later.

My comments:

I tend agree that while the laminate style shngles are sealed, (and newish: Under 10 yrs old?) that they will prolly not blow off. No matter how badly fastened. As time goes on and they become unsealed, they become susceptible not only to wind damage, but who the heck has not seen them slipping or falling off of the roof?

I can only wonder that while the warranties get longer and better, that the mfg'ers. either have no clue of their products long term performance or simply don't expect it to matter......because they won't last anyway?

In essence, is this simply a warranty issue and nothing to do with actual long term performance?

Like I say, time will tell!

OS: Yea, but I'm not in the business of convincing everybody I meet. I know picky contractors who love them. I'm GAF 95% of my roofs. I normally sell a different roof based on color, or a contractor request. Also, I don't like OC because they stick like crazy! To make matters worse, my local OC yard stores them outside in sunlight.

They are going to have problems with those OC's in the near future. The solid sealant strip with the plastic strip to fasten to will allow water to get into the shingles at the butt joint, and there is no way for it to get out. The nails are going to rust right out because that is where they are nailed. It happened when they first came out with self sealing shingles in the mid 60's, and evidently those in charge now have forgotten the lessons learned back then. That is why all of the self sealing strips are normally dabbed or spotted on the shingles. time will tell.

Here is a question I've had but unsure about. OC Durations say on the wrapper you can nail in the surenail strip unless its a steep slope. I've been hitting the regular line every time, but do you guys trust that surenail strip? Also, is hitting that white line on there a bad thing, because it seems like that is on the cusp of the laminated part which is the worst place to hit. What you guys think? BTW: I normally use GAF. Today we are doing a 14/12 pitch so they will be on the normal line, but what about lower pitches?

TomB Said: Staples work fine.....Never had an issue & Ive installed or been responsible for 100s of thousands of sqs over the past 20+ years....We use nails today....Just as we utilize waaaayyyy too much ice & water shield....its the When in Rome.... syndrome....If you dont use I&W everywhere here, your considered a hack....When quite the opposite is actually true; They use the I&W to mask inferior workmanship ;)

;)

Staples work fine.....Never had an issue & I've installed or been responsible for 100's of thousands of sqs over the past 20+ years....We use nails today....Just as we utilize waaaayyyy too much ice & water shield....it's the "When in Rome...." syndrome....If you don't use I&W everywhere here, your considered a hack....When quite the opposite is actually true; They use the I&W to mask inferior workmanship ;)

I must be at least a generation behind. I still prefer staples.

A correctly placed staple is worth more than an improperly placed nail.

Staples however lost the marketing war to nails a generation ago. So if there is a problem w/ nails now, the geniuses involved blame the nail gun, not the installer. Que Sera Sera

We still use staples, and have for about 40 years now. Like you say, it is how they are applied. How many times have you seen the self sealing shingles stay stuck together and slide off the roof with the holes for the "better" gun nails over driven and high on the shingles still showing as they hit the ground?

Appropriate placement is important. Air pressure and penetration are critical. Fasteners Appropriately placed but over driven, crap! Under driven, more of the same crap B) :) :) B) Deep Down In Florida Where The Sun Shines Damn Near Every Day

As to asphalt shingle attachement, I completely disagree wiyh the NRCA's opinion....Case in point; 20 yeras ago in California 1" crown staples were the method of attachment....(Not sure about today).

Anyhow; A windstorm had come through a community....Wind damage to comp shingle roofs was astonishing....I was in a const. trlr. conversing with a home builder....He was going on & on about how shingles should be fastened w/nails instead of staples to prevent wind damage....

I took him outside and asked him to view the adjoining two tracts of homes....One tract was done by us, whereas fastener placement is of the utmost importance. Staples are placed hrizontal in the appropriate placement......The other by xyz co. that just stapled any ol' way....Not a shingle disturbed on the tract we did....However devastation to the one next door.

Fasterner placement does matter in the case of staples/comp shingles.

:woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: Does this mean we can nail in the butt joints like the beaners!

I've used that method before Frank. I put my finger down on the shingle where we nail and show the resistance to uplift. Then I move my finger to show the client where most of the other crews will nail and how easily the shingle lifts

Yeah right.

Pin a flexible 12" ruler down at the 12" mark and lift the other end. Note the difficulty, amount of rise, etc.

Continue this until you get to the 1" mark.

Then for fun, pretent it was a 30 year shingle.

Now, let's take a 1" wide by 12" long piece of 1/8" flat bar and repeat the experiments. The flat bar will be considered a 50 year shingle for purposes of this experiment.

This gives us guidelines for placement and weights to compare.

Post all results here, including any perceived wind resistance that could be gained by shortening shingle exposure.