Going Negative - Your Thoughts?

As a general rule I don't like to go negative, it can turn customers off sometimes. However, we have a lowball foamer in this town who is damaging the reputation of SPF roofing and I have tweaked our website to address that. Look at it below and give me your thoughts?

The discount foamer is literally crooked - I won't go into details. He frequently sells 1" and gives 1/2". The customer doesn't know or care about the details, he just blames the failures on SPF roofing as a system.

http://adamsrooftech.com/?page_id=259

Everybody's a comedian.

In the advertising market they say " sex sells"

Just pull out all the stops and go with that theme and stress "size matters" in relation to the thickness of your product and having a satisfied customer while your completion just delivers a "quicky in and out" leaving their customer wanting more. Play up on the "low-baller" angle also.

If Madison Avenue can use sex to sell cars and hamburgers, why can't it be used for roofing?

Imagine that sexy, steamy voice on an info commercial "Call Tim now at Adams Roof Tech, that extra half inch makes all the difference in the world"

twill59 Said:

Id rather not guess, Id rather be spending my mental energy, ( what little of it I have) on figuring out something more important.

Yeah, me too. If a guy has an answer, give it. Don't couch it in a riddle.

It's like this Tim...Joseph my 11 yr. old for many years says to me: "Dad, wanna know sumpin?" My Response: "Yes Joe. What is it?"

Once in a while we veer off towards "Guess". And of course, I don't even know where to start ("Sumpin'" covers a HELL of a lot of territory!) Mostly he just tells me. I much prefer to be told. Takes the fun out of thinking, for sure.

But who said thinking is fun? Wandering thoughts , daydreaming perhaps.

I'd rather not guess, I'd rather be spending my mental energy, ( what little of it I have) on figuring out something more important.

Sigh. I remember the good ol' days when roofers acted like roofers. They talked about things like beer, pookie, coal tar, mod bit, emulsion, pickups, airplanes & escalators, and deer season. These days it's crafting critiques hidden in latin, followed by 14 dozen guesses at what the latin phrase meant. I assume it was latin, it looked like latin, but it didn't interest me enough to find out for sure. Once I found out it loosely means donkey bridge, I was done and I thought oh great, it's another roofer acting like he's something else. :-)

They say a skilled writer of a non-technical subject should type at a 7th grade level. Not because his readers can only read at a 7th grade level, but because that keeps it casual and doesn't require side trips to Google to figure out what the pretentiousness was all about.

Typed mostly in jest. You can guess which parts were in jest, since riddles are in style. :-)

If my math is right, and common assumptions of what we define as "short" and "tall" are accurate, then I think the tall guy hits the ground and breaks his ankles, while the short guy is left dangling with his toes about 3" off the ground.

What I think I read is that we only have 8' of spare rope, an 11' eave, and I have to assume there is a little loss of length in knots with typical connection point somewhere mid-back.

I'm sure y'all were wondering ;)

wywoody Said: In answer to Eggs question, I say the big guy hits ground first, not because of any mathematical reason, but the slack in the rope means he freefalls 3 before his rope starts to drag on the roof.

That scenario also describes the vast majority of workers using safety ropes around here. They work with all the hassle of the rope, but have so much slack in the rope that they would be over the edge before the rope tightened.

As for going negative, it isnt a factor for me as struggling to meet demand is usually my main issue. But if you have actually witnessed something, you have a right to pass that information on to a customer verbally. But putting it in advertising cheapens your image.

In answer to Eggs question, I say the big guy hits ground first, not because of any mathematical reason, but the slack in the rope means he freefalls 3' before his rope starts to drag on the roof.

That scenario also describes the vast majority of workers using safety ropes around here. They work with all the hassle of the rope, but have so much slack in the rope that they would be over the edge before the rope tightened.

As for going negative, it isn't a factor for me as struggling to meet demand is usually my main issue. But if you have actually witnessed something, you have a right to pass that information on to a customer verbally. But putting it in advertising cheapens your image.

glassemulsion Said: Ya roofguy I deal with that a lot here with glass and emulsion our average roof will be a 15 gallon spec and 10 year warranty. Our competitors spec 15 and spray 9 and cant even spray properly there roofs fail after 2-5 years they rob the customer and give our system a bad name, with that being said we show the customer 25 year old roofs still going strong that usually fixes there mind set lol there will always be lowballers and union co. Which means there will always be crooks!

Good points. Our radio ads say "If your roofer offers a 15 year warranty, make him show you his 15 year old commercial roof - make sure he knows how to install roofs that last as long as his warranty."

Emulsion roofs last and last. When I'm selling a roof it helps a lot when I tell the customer "Why don't we go look at Trinity Baptist church, I personally installed that emulsion roof in 1986."

Ya roofguy I deal with that a lot here with glass and emulsion our average roof will be a 15 gallon spec and 10 year warranty. Our competitors spec 15 and spray 9 and can't even spray properly there roofs fail after 2-5 years they rob the customer and give our system a bad name, with that being said we show the customer 25 year old roofs still going strong that usually fixes there mind set lol there will always be lowballers and union co. Which means there will always be crooks!

The code!!!! Euclid's Elements

Book I

Proposition 5 In isosceles triangles the angles at the base equal one another, and, if the equal straight lines are produced further, then the angles under the base equal one another. I.Def.20 I.Post.2 Let ABC be an isosceles triangle having the side AB equal to the side AC, and let the straight lines BD and CE be produced further in a straight line with AB and AC. I say that the angle ABC equals the angle ACB, and the angle CBD equals the angle BCE. I.3. I.Post.1 Take an arbitrary point F on BD. Cut off AG from AE the greater equal to AF the less, and join the straight lines FC and GB. I.5 Since AF equals AG, and AB equals AC, therefore the two sides FA and AC equal the two sides GA and AB, respectively, and they contain a common angle, the angle FAG. I.4 Therefore the base FC equals the base GB, the triangle AFC equals the triangle AGB, and the remaining angles equal the remaining angles respectively, namely those opposite the equal sides, that is, the angle ACF equals the angle ABG, and the angle AFC equals the angle AGB. C.N.3 Since the whole AF equals the whole AG, and in these AB equals AC, therefore the remainder BF equals the remainder CG. I.4 But FC was also proved equal to GB, therefore the two sides BF and FC equal the two sides CG and GB respectively, and the angle BFC equals the angle CGB, while the base BC is common to them. Therefore the triangle BFC also equals the triangle CGB, and the remaining angles equal the remaining angles respectively, namely those opposite the equal sides. Therefore the angle FBC equals the angle GCB, and the angle BCF equals the angle CBG. C.N.3 Accordingly, since the whole angle ABG was proved equal to the angle ACF, and in these the angle CBG equals the angle BCF, the remaining angle ABC equals the remaining angle ACB, and they are at the base of the triangle ABC. But the angle FBC was also proved equal to the angle GCB, and they are under the base. Therefore in isosceles triangles the angles at the base equal one another, and, if the equal straight lines are produced further, then the angles under the base equal one another. Q.E.D. Guide

There are two conclusions for this proposition, first that the internal base angles ABC and ACB are equal, second that the external base angles FBC and GCB are equal. From the diagram it looks like it would be easy to prove the second conclusion from the first by simply subtracting the equal angles ABC and ACB the straight angles ABF and ACG, respectively. But Euclid doesn’t accept straight angles, and even if he did, he hasn’t proved that all straight angles are equal. Proposition I.13 would be enough, since it implies the sum of angles ABC and FBC equals two right angles, and the sum of angles ACB and GCB also equals two right angles, and so the two sums are equal effectively saying all straight angles are equal. Unfortunately, such an argument would be circular. I.13 depends on I.11, I.11 on I.8, I.8 on I.7, and I.7 on I.5. Thus, I.13 cannot be used in the proof of I.5. It may appear that I.7 only depends on the first conclusion of I.5, but a case of I.7 that Euclid does not discuss relies on the second conclusion of I.5.

This proposition has been called the Pons Asinorum, or Asses’ Bridge. Whether this name is due to its difficulty (which it isn’t) or the resemblance of its figure to a bridge is not clear. Very few of the propositions in the Elements are known by names.

Pappus’ proof

Pappus (fl. ca. 320 C.E.) gave a much shorter proof of the first conclusion, but it is also conceptually more difficult. The two triangles BAC and CAB have two sides equal to two sides, namely side BA of the first triangle equals side CA of the second triangle, and side AC of the first triangle equal to side AB of the second, and the contained angles are equal, namely angle BAC of the first triangle equals angle CAB of the second, therefore, by I.4, the corresponding parts of the two triangles are equal, in particular, the angle B in the first triangle equals the angle C of the second. The difficulty lies in treating one triangle as two, or in making a correspondence between a triangle and itself, but not the correspondence of identity. There is nothing wrong with this proof formally, but it might be more difficult for a student just learning geometry. B) :) :) B) Deep Down In Florida Where The Sun Shines Damn Near Every Day

glassemulsion Said: Not to be a party pooper but in my experience unless your being under bid by thousands price should not be a factor sell value in your company and product and the owner will have a reason to pay more. ;) going negative gets you nowhere makes you look like a sore looser...

You have to know the back story. Yes, they are underbidding by an extreme amount. Generally speaking, an inch of foam and acrylic around here goes for $350/SQR They sell for $200 and give zero interest financing for 12 months.

Of course you can do that when you put down 1/2" of foam and 3/4 gallon acrylic rather than 2.5. So far, SPF gets the blame for their poor roofing performance, not so much them. I'm trying to find a diplomatic way to educate our customers about that. Toward that, I have started using a new motto in our advertising: You Get What You Spray For!

So subtle, that probably I'm the only one who gets it. :-)

Egg: Trick question? They are both fired when their feet leave the roof.

Not to be a party pooper but in my experience unless your being under bid by thousands price should not be a factor sell value in your company and product and the owner will have a reason to pay more. ;) going negative gets you nowhere makes you look like a sore looser...

Ok, here's my pons asinorum:

You've got a short guy and a tall guy standing on a single-story roof. Gable to gable. The rafter length is sixteen feet. The ridge and the gutter are twenty-four feet long. A simple rectangle, then, eleven feet off the ground. A triangle is described by an apex at the midpoint of the ridge and the endcaps of the gutter at the base. It is isosceles, and remarkably it exactly encompasses two back to back 3-4-5 right triangles. The hypotenuse(s) of these two mirror-image triangles are each twenty feet long and run from the midpoint of the ridge to the endcaps of the gutter.

The short guy fixes a roof anchor at the midpoint of the ridge and both guys clip into it. They play out twenty feet of line and then they go down and stand grimly at the extreme lower corners of the roof slope.

When they get there and finally get comfortable, they play out an additional four feet of line and then jump off simultaneously on the count of three. On the count of two, however, the big guy takes a couple of sneaky steps down the line creating about three additional feet of slack.

Which one will hit the ground first?