Extending the Bush Tax Cuts

JSC,

Other than the specific fund manager issue, I was lumping much of the conversation into one with the topic of capital gains.

As for fund managers, if that's the case, I stand corrected, and agree with your position whole heartedly.

"Et al, when y'all talk about the rich, or fund managers, or Warren Buffett, etc. making big bucks on capital gains: 1. That fund manager gets a salary like anyone else. His salary will be taxed at the same income rate as anyone else in his bracket. Think about it....

2. Anyone that is getting income from capital gains... so what? That person invested money that was left over from their regular income. The first thing any of us do is pay income tax. Capital gains tax is nothing more than double taxation. If you work all year, pay your taxes, manage to save a few nickles, and invest what nickles you saved, why should you be taxed in whole, on the return on your investment? I mean if that's what you want to do, send a little bonus with your tax return, I'm sure the government will appreciate your generosity. But if it really bothers you, I might suggest instead that you take that guilt money and give it to some local charity that will make the dollar go 3 times farther, at a minimum, than your government"

I'm not sure you're right about hedge fund managers. I was under the impression that they are given special treatment and only pay 15% on any income derived from the fund. I don't like the idea of special treatment, whether it be lower tax rates for some or higher for others.

As far as capital gains I get all of that I can. Don't know where you assumed I was advocating paying more tax than we already do on it, had any guilt about it, or wanted to pay more.To use one of your favorite lines, I'm "not impressed" with the smart remarks about sending more in to the govt or giving it away out of guilt.

Stephen

For the second time, you've made veiled inuendo toward a person, me, that you honestly know nothing about. If the sum total of your impressions of me is based on my feeling toward over taxation and my reaction to class warfare, then quit with the induendo, tell what you really think, and why, or ask what you really want to know.

As for the anonimity of charity, that's why I said the conversation needed to take place somewhere other than here. If I am in any way a target in your following post to twill, then you horrifically misinterpret the intent of my previous posts, made almost wholly to a group that doesn't know me from Adam, and can serve no purpose toward a goal of self serving, when vague examples of fact were provided for no other reason than to provide an example of taxation at higher income levels.

Et al, when y'all talk about the rich, or fund managers, or Warren Buffett, etc. making big bucks on capital gains: 1. That fund manager gets a salary like anyone else. His salary will be taxed at the same income rate as anyone else in his bracket. Think about it....

2. Anyone that is getting income from capital gains... so what? That person invested money that was left over from their regular income. The first thing any of us do is pay income tax. Capital gains tax is nothing more than double taxation. If you work all year, pay your taxes, manage to save a few nickles, and invest what nickles you saved, why should you be taxed in whole, on the return on your investment? I mean if that's what you want to do, send a little bonus with your tax return, I'm sure the government will appreciate your generosity. But if it really bothers you, I might suggest instead that you take that guilt money and give it to some local charity that will make the dollar go 3 times farther, at a minimum, than your government.

I certainly agree with that.

On the subject of clarity, I have to admit to some serious frustration these days, although in all honesty I can't remember ever not having to deal with at least background frustration. My post was an attempt on my part to gain a little clarity by switching to a writ-large scale just to put things into some perspective for myself. It's hard to ask a species, a culture, or any group to put higher, unselfish ideals ahead of personal gain and expect much of a turn-out. For me that's the hardest part. The gains for everyone would be so palpable and so far-reaching. To live on and use the planet without despoiling it, to find meaningful work and time enough to rest. Pretty sad, really that we have so much difficulty doing that. Faith. Have to have faith.

The only way to return to living under the principles of the Constitution We as a people must come to love those things again. If we love them we will serve those principles. First we have to understand ( clarity) to understand we must know (honesty) All else is folly. It is our responsibility. B) :) :) B) Deep Down In Florida Where The Sun Shines Damn Near Every Day

now i know where you guys are hiding :laugh:

Good Gracious Twill! I sounded like a Republican on that last one. Your kids and grandkids???? How about....Me & You!!!??? (Now I sound like an Independent.....go ahead, mock me. I am in good company)

Anyway to expound further (blab) on Welfare, taxes and charity, I think of a local roofer guy/ contractor. His kid took sick and he had no insurance. So about 3 yrs. ago some folks put on a benefit for their medical expenses. I was conflicted. Here is a guy that "owns his business" (job) but does not carry insurance on his own family (responsibility) let alone his employees.

SO here he sits 3 years later, still low balling and.....paying his "employees" KASH. I dunno if he will start pricing high enough to take care of his family, or if he is one of the Republicans on Welfare (like my BIL), but I do know I lost one CHURCH job to him. Nothing like a bargain..... the state is prolly taking better care of him, than the child.

I dunno. Charity starts from STRENGTH not weakness. We are NOT a strong country. We ARE a weak people. Christ said to be Child Like in our belief, not so sure he meant that about our actions....

I read about a flooring contractor in this area a week ago. His young son (less than 1 yr old) is going to die without surgery soon. Of course, this self employed "businessman" has no insurance for his family.

Turns out the state will take care of the operation for his son.(Horrors! Death Panels!!) I don't know what happened with the roofers kid.

I wonder: How many spaghetti suppers it takes to provide a $200,000 life saving surgical procedure?

egg Said: Look wise, say nothing, and grunt. Give me a break. Ciak.

You are going to have to go to the far corners of the earth to find a man more dedicated to basic humanitarian principles than MikeH. I dont know if even then you are going to beat that. Can you beat that?

Well there is that darned line in the sand again Stephen B) I think now of one of the "hostages" taken in this sell out (buy out if U R an American).....Unemployment Extension.

My brother has been getting his for 2 yrs. after QUITTING his last job. He did not like the hrs. and was not smart enough to have another one lined up, or did not care. Because..........

....He is living with my Mom. On SS. So there ya go. A 2 income household? or welfare? :laugh:

(Mom who lent him & the ex money to buy a house and who never saw a dime of it repaid when they sold it)

Anyway, everyone seems to draw their own line in the sand. Is some sort of means testing necessary? Is that a joke too? (yup, prolly) Total elimination of it all? Cut it back A LOT (OK--- along w/ the corporate welfare, military extravaganzas, and freebies for Wall St..... and add in Tariffs and we will be FINE)

DAMN! We'd be in excellent shape!! Too bad we are paying over $800 bil to go the OPPOSITE way. Maybe I'll take a long vacation with the money ---- paid for by you guy's kids and grandchildren of course. Have them e-mail me w/ their reccommended destinations. I'll even e-mail back some pics of my big gut from some tropical beach. I am sure they are computer literate, and what the heck, it does not cost me anything to e-mail.

This coming from a guy who advertised for help wanted all last year and really got only the usual "floaters".

OTOH the over 50 crowd used to be my customer base. Now they are unemployed and uninterested, or too old to work for me......

Egg,

I wouldn't worry about de-railing the conversation. I have to admidt- I am either not bright enough or subtle enough to quite pick up where you are going with that- but I have no doubt it was valuable none-the -less.

I have actually been thinking the past few days about(of all things!) a TV show from the '70s, I think called M*A*S*H in one episode a character called Charles-while stuck in the Korean War tries to follow a family tradition of holiday charity- givin anon. to an orphanage- but for his gift to have personal value it MUST be done anon.

Interestingly(to me,anyway) a little later in life I learned in a World Religons class- that other religons had similar traditions. In one- I think it might be called Talmudic Reasoning- there was actually a sliding scale of how meritous a persons actions might be, based on WHO knew of your actions. At the low end- I know I was charitable AND the beneficiary knows they benefit from my actions at the other end of things-and much more merit worth- I do some good- but I have no idea WHO I helped-and the benficiary has no idea who helped them- it's totally anon. . I imagine the lesson is the more I tell people how great I am- the less great I am, LOL.

off for a run, Stephen

Twill, suprisingly "small business" is usually defined as anything under 500 employees. That has some fun implications when looking at things from the ----well as you put it the ROI viewpoint.

On a personal level- I imagine when encountering any situation---social,political,economic,religous etc.-------- you would take a slightly more conservative position and I would take a more liberal position- but an objective analysis whould find our relative positions not really incompatible. More a matter of where you draw the line-our view of the "tipping point" on the scale from social safety net to welfare-or if those 2 terms are even accurate for that matter. Stephen

mike, read your original post in this thread-or indeed any of your later posts. I am not seeing much "joy" in them. stephen

Look wise, say nothing, and grunt. Give me a break. Ciak.

You are going to have to go to the far corners of the earth to find a man more dedicated to basic humanitarian principles than MikeH. I don't know if even then you are going to beat that. Can you beat that?

Look wise, say nothing, and grunt. Speech was given to conceal thought-William Osler Harumph! B) :) :) B) Deep Down In Florida Where The Sun Shines Damn Near Every Day

I've read your post three times, EGG and keep thinking it has to be about the Dream act.