Extending the Bush Tax Cuts

First off, the title of this whole thread is just propaganda. It's continuation of the current rates. Did we call the rates before the "Bush tax cuts" the Clinton/Bush(sr) tax increase? Why do those rates get to be the baseline?

Stephen, I'm curious, what standard of living do you think you should have at 40 employees? If I extrapolate from my peak number of employees I've ever had (15 or 16) I would say he deserves at least $600k per year. If I extrapolate the amount of time required and hassles I had at that level, to what 40 employees would be, I'd say $600k isn't enough.

In the past, I've had my own issues with resentment of the rich. In the markets I've worked, my specialty of tile has been mostly an upscale product. When I was younger, I used to think "what a waste that all the good party houses seem to be owned by people too old to party." But as I matured, I came to appreciate the convenience of being able to make the same amount of money on one big house as you could make doing three or four smaller houses.

I still sometimes get a little annoyed at the excesses of of some of the superich customers I deal with. I do installation and maintenance for 7 houses of the heirs of the founder of a successful nationaly known business. One member could be considered borderline psycho, the way she lives. But during the recession I've come to really appreciate her almost "Winchester Widow" obsession with additions on her house.

As to national financial policy, I think that shrinking the size of government is vital, but won't come until we hit bottom. We're sinking now, but we're not there yet. Instead of the two parties balancing each other's spending, it's just the opposite. Demos criticized the drug benefit, yet when they assumed power, did nothing to change it and instead added the healthcare fiasco. It's become nothing but a futile throwing money at sob stories hoping they'll go away.

O/S you got it. As I've said, the Tax RATE, is practically meaningless in the REALITY, not the IDEOLOGY, of this situation. Do you want to drown 1st Class or Coach? :(

And the "Rich" do not have lifeboats. They have Helicopters that will lift them away. We would not want them to get their talented fingers cold in the frigid water now would we?

You guys are argueing about the placement of the deck chairs on the Titanic as it is sinking! Hell, it is not like we just hit the iceberg either! The whole deck of this ship of state is practically at a 45 degree angle, and the people at the very top of the food chain have their own lifeboats. ALL of us are in front of the fan, and the shat is about to hit it!

Pelosi and Obama and all of their ilk are doing what they are told to do. If you want to know who is to blame,look at the people that "create" our "Money" They lend it into circulation, and the only way to do that is to charge interest. We have been borrowing to pay the interest, and the interest is one of the largest items in the "budget" What a farce. It is all smoke and mirrors, and while we cry and blame each other, the back of the ship is going into the water. Run to the front of the boat! I saw the movie, and the whole thing goes down eventually, it is just a matter of time.

The FED and the people that have created it and have always controled it are pulling our chains and they always have been. I personally don't think there is anything any of us can do about it. Neither did Henry Ford about 80 years ago, and he was in a good position to know. We are screwed!

Hunker down and do the best you can and know that it is coming. Prepare for the worst with whatever you can scrape together and watch this ride. It is going to be a class 5 rapids!

Mike, I hate to break it to you-but you aren't a "fat cat".

You are however, apparently a victim. I would say you are a victim of the Republican strategy for the last 30 years.-----The Republican strategy has been to convince people like you-that you are a "fat cat"-and to get you to side with them at the voting booth -------- and in doing so---you cut your own throat.

Given the figures you supplied- I can only surmise that you are suffering to a small degree from a sense of entitlement( with 40 employees I deserve X standard of living)-and more importantly you are suffering to a large degree from the particular business model you have chosen-----you can't rationally blame either of these conditions on Obama

stephen

Mike it does indeed seem to be class warfare. And guess which class is winning?

Obviously everyone who is in business (plus some who are not) actually think that they are Bill Gates and they are heading straight for the poorhouse without a tax cut.

As a business owner who is more in the reality of the middle, I can see that it is what little Social Safety Net that is left that is under attack by "Class Warfare" (another Ideological word. Koch Brothers perhaps?)

The CORRECT equation would be to Cut Spending, w/ more tax revenue, followed by deficit reduction. No "Kool Aid" about it. However from Dem/ Rep Lala Land, what we got is the opposite.

(The problem w/ your son's figures is what his employment costs HRI. It has never made sense that I pay 1/2 my employees SS. Or the 1099 Tax Cheats just keep plugging away for that matter.)

(Why in the world does "HealthCare" fall under the responsibility of some business anyway???? Get rid of it....talk about FREEDOM!) Anyway, another subject, another day...

As far as your #2 goes Mike, there are prolly 1000 different sets of numbers out there, so really we can only speak for ourselves. I have seen even higher than yours. (In the end the "Tax Rate" rarely matters. It is the RETURN on the tax dollar paid. i.e. the 800-lb. Gorilla we ignore)

The "Rich" recognize that a lot of them are indeed getting a free ride. I don't think that all of them are. I never have or would. Some are ----SURPRISE!!--- soaking the taxpayer for tons of money. OR there are more incentives to operate in China than here. WOW!! Let's shovel MORE money at them..... (That Ross Perot sure was a KOOK, wasn't he......)

The line in the sand was drawn at $200K and 250K. WHY???? Why not $500K ? $1 million? $2 mil ??? What was the mess with Estate Tax about???? 2% Deduction from a broken SS System???? Lots of smoke, mirrors and DEBT.

We got the same "Hopey Changey" in 2010 that we got in 2008. I cannot put it in any simpler words than that.

In the end, WE the American people have some responsibility in this fiasco. The two unfunded goofball wars that WE supported. The taxpayer fueled housing crisis that WE supported that kept millions of "conservative" "anti government" construction people employed and profitable beyond normal for the last decade. The junk from China and Cheap labor from Mexico that WE supported. WE the American people are preparing to load up on $800bil more in debt All of which go well beyond "Class Warfare". It's a pretty broad spectrum, i.e. Indictment

We have indeed gotten the government we deserve. Now that is looking at us in the mirror, we just want to cry that we are "phucked" in the eye and walk away from it. Real Americans that we are and all. Yup.

More Welfare and more Warfare. :(

Kapow!!!

lol

That was mesmerizing. Where do I sign?

Mike, you need to set up a foundation I think to get your personal income down a little lower? I'm assuming you must have thought about alternatives to the AMT, but maybe another trip outside the box is in order. Not sure.

That deficit is something else. Lot of different places to look for pork than in the pockets of the favorite five per cent.

Twill, I don't know what world you're from, but if Phucked is your word of the day, plaster it on the mirror.

I'm one of your "Fat Cats", and my effective tax rate, all income considered was 46% last year. Did you know that after a certain point, deductions phase out? I didn't think so.

The simple fact is that 5% of the people payed 58% of the taxes. That up about 7% since BUSH took office.

I'm sure you work for yourself so that you can stay poor all your life, or just slightly overweight, and that you have no aspirations of being the top 5% but if you ever change your mind, good luck. I'm sure it will be an eye opening experience for you.

Oh, yeah, ..... my son, married, 1 child, full time roofer, with earned income tax credits last year actually got a refund that was BIGGER than his total withholdings. So, the government paid him to work.

Oh, yeah, #2 ..... those fat cats at the top 1%, paid about 35% of the total income taxes, and earned about 17% of total income. (I'm in this group, and it ain't that hard to hit the bottom end of the top 1%)

Oh, yeah #3 ..... after taking all the risk, making "the big bucks", giving back to my community, giving back to my church, giving almost half to the government, keeping 40 people at work, inheriting all the liability, and basically at the end of the year being left with about 10K to show for it in my bank account, I'm really struggling to see how Obama thinks I'm being greedy, but, sure, you have no idea what it's like and I can see why you would think so. NOT!!

Keep drinkin' the kool-aid..... It won't kill ya as fast as Jim Jones' variety, but the death is just as sure. And if you really want some education, read up on the history of the AMT (Alternative Minimum Tax).

If you really, truly, in your heart, believe the politically convenient class warfare line that the rich are getting a free ride, and that taking a bigger chunk of the drive train that's already working beyond capacity, pays over half the tax while making a much smaller percent of the income, will solve our deficit problems, then someone musta phucked you in the ear.

Another:

So we continue to ignore staggering deficits to make the fat cats fatter. I'm not a fat cat but more of a little overweight cat, but my dividends are tax free, my capital gains are taxed at 15% while the one who sweats with hard work is taxed at 25-36 percent, depending upon income. Nice. I'll leave my kids and grand kids a little money, but I doubt that they will have much of a country left in which to spend it. I can't help but wonder about the very, very wealthy though. Just how much is enough?

Someone else's Opinion:

"Fascinating - the Republicans, the Democrats, and the NY Times spin this as a wonderful compromise, but the vast majority of readers post their opinion (and mine) that it was another piece of poor legislation. Of course its a great compromise that gives everyone what they ask for (tax cuts for the Republicans, more stimulus for the Democrats) except that it costs $858 billion, and no one gave up anything material, they only sacrificed ideology"

Another $860 bil of debt. WOW! That is a lot of turds to gift wrap and hand to our children as gifts. In a way, it is kind of cool that I can keep an extra few $thousand the next two years. OTOH, a decimated Country that only knows Warfare and Welfare does not bode well for anything beyond that.

Chairman Mao must be bustin' a gut over these Buffoons.

I have decided to quit wasting my time voting. 97% of the American voters have decided that this is what they want. So be it. You can cut taxes, increase spending and pay off the deficit all at the same time. (Did they just save Social Security too?)

With all the ecomomists, accountants and staticians employed by the government, somebody by now should have determined the top rate that revenues begin to decrease if raised higher. That point should be known by every politician and voter. Anything higher than that would be understood as revenge on achievers by the spiteful, not as actually increasing revenues.

When people say "The Bush tax cuts didn't create jobs" it isn't that simple. How do you know more jobs wouldn't have been lost without tax cuts?

Tax cuts are always good. Anytime, for any reason, tax cuts are always good. Always. No exceptions. Ever.

Congress is playing a shell gamne and both parties are involved. They whine ad infinitum about the "Bush tax cuts" increasing the defecit. Uh, well, cut spending, stupid! The problem is both spending and taxes. And the entitlement mentality.

"Those who will not work, shall not eat." ---Apostle Paul

We have too many greedy MOFOs . They move the corporate offices off shore so they don't have to pay taxes. MADE IN AMERICA MY AZZ. I personally won't buy a product from them. Up Theirs. Capitalation has reached it's max. You know what is good about all of this YOU & I will survive , these greedy bugers don't know how. PC