EDPM ?

I have a small (9' x 27") rubber roof I will be doing soon. It's not competitive bidding, so price isn't an issue.

My question is about reinforced vs nonreinforced 60 mil rubber. What are the circumstances that you would want reinforced and would it make much of a difference on a small project like this?

I agree 100% with.............................Copperman! :)

wywoody,

Water Cut-off, has be come a generic term for any non-hardening butyl sealant who's "stringy" properties will allow a single tube to wrap a microscopic fillament 3 times around the world, or just make one heckuva mess wherever you use it. ;)

We no long buy branded water cut off for each manufacturer that we use, and instead use a generic butyl sealant. I'm not familiar with Duralink, but if it's a gray butyl, you should be safe.

Thanks for the responses. It looks like non reinforced will be the way I'll go. This roof is a 9x30 rectangle with a turret roof taking a bite out of it in the middle. The shape would involve lots of different pieces for the three-ply SA system I normally would use and the one-piece rubber makes more sense to me for this project.

I do have another question. How does Water Cutoff differ from a premium non-hardening sealant like Duralink? I like the purposeful name, but what makes it cutoff water differntly?

I agree with mike B)

tinner666 Said: Some more interesting stuff! Its literally impossible to work out a wrinkle in adhered EPDM You sure got that right! Non will flop over into the glue in an instant. I never have that problem with reinforced. Its too stiff to double up on itself. And don;t forget Im usually trying to roll a 20-40 section in by myself.

Yes that was a mistake. It should have read "REINFORCED..."

Doing it by yourself, reinforced probably is much easier, as you probably have trouble flopping an air layer under the rubber, and pushing it into place at the same time to quite a bit more of a challenge. In that case, the stiffer the rubber, the easier, I suppose.

tinner666 Said: Since I do residential more than commercial, I have trees overhanging 90% of my jobs and falling branches AND icicles are a real hazard. Not arguing. Different roofs require different approaches.

agree completely

tinner666 Said: I buy lots of .045 for tarping equipment and open roof areas.

That's about all it's good for ;)

tinner666 Said: Now then, do some of you really find non easier to roll into glue? Even with help, Ive had it just flop into the glue with out unrolling properly. It takes steady hands and lots of attention to prevent that, it seems.

If you substrate is not perfectly level/straight/whatever... the flexibility of non reinforced allows it to form to the shape without forcing a wrinkle in the sheet. Yes, my guys would much rather do 60 mil non than 60 mil reinf.

tinner666 Said:While 60 mil non-reinforced is also 2 sheets of thinner rubber cured together, the reinforcement takes up extra space in the sheet. In this case, if puncture resistence is of no concern, the non-reinforced will last longer. Although both will last a long time. Maybe I should offer it as a low end roof and offer .090 as an upgrade. How well does it roll in?

My opinion... the seams will fail long before the rubber, and 60 mil is fine.

Some more interesting stuff! "It's literally impossible to work out a wrinkle in adhered EPDM" You sure got that right! 'Non' will flop over into the glue in an instant. I never have that problem with reinforced. It's too stiff to double up on itself. And don;t forget I'm usually trying to roll a 20-40' section in by myself. Since I do residential more than commercial, I have trees overhanging 90% of my jobs and falling branches AND icicles are a real hazard. Not arguing. Different roofs require different approaches. I buy lots of .045 for tarping equipment and open roof areas.

Now then, do some of you really find 'non' easier to roll into glue? Even with help, I've had it just flop into the glue with out unrolling properly. It takes steady hands and lots of attention to prevent that, it seems.

"While 60 mil non-reinforced is also 2 sheets of thinner rubber cured together, the reinforcement takes up extra space in the sheet. In this case, if puncture resistence is of no concern, the non-reinforced will last longer. Although both will last a long time." Maybe I should offer it as a low end roof and offer .090 as an upgrade. How well does it roll in?

That's because they get 15 cents a square foot more for it Frank.

While 60 mil non-reinforced is also 2 sheets of thinner rubber cured together, the reinforcement takes up extra space in the sheet. In this case, if puncture resistence is of no concern, the non-reinforced will last longer. Although both will last a long time.

45 mil reinforced is the next closest thing to junk. There just isn't enough rubber, and I've often seen it pinholing in less than 10 years.

(Copperman - LOL )

Also, generally speaking, the non is easier to work with. It's literally impossible to work out a wrinkle in adhered EPDM

TomB Said: Fully adhered = non-reinforced Mechanically attached = reinforced

Interesting. I just watched a company put down several 100sq. of non-reinforced, mechanically fastened.

I was just recertifed as an EPDM installer and got no complaints when I pointed put all my roofs are reinforced, fully adhered. And turned in specs for another proposed roof, fully adhered, FR & reinforced.

They rate the reinforced, fully adhered as premium, above the non-reinforced.

Fully adhered = non-reinforced Mechanically attached = reinforced

Now I'm lol'ing. Why not just do it in copper and be done with it forever? I just tore off a neoprene membrane and told the carpenters to frame it up for 2/12. Stainless nails, comp, and large set-back= cheap and done. Up to half and twelve and I would do a mulehide SBS with 60 mil base, one or two midply, and cap, but we can only get FR sheets in White. I wonder why that is (not) but why would you do rubber without coating it and what would y'all recommend coating it with?

Well I will wait for Mikes reply and agree with him. That way I will have the right answer. B)

It says right on his tag that Tinner is a "slate repair specialist" not an EPDM specialist. What does he know? More than me I guess!

LOL :laugh:

K, its obvious tinner hates me because everybody knows non-reinforced is better and he is just saying that to make me mad.

Nobody agrees on anything here! Me, I only use reinforced. It lays so much easier, it's the only thing I bid. MuleHide just sent me my certification too, for some reason.