Duration Sure-Nail Strip (cellophane)

Manufacturer backs warranty on shopping center roofing

01/18/2013

By Sharyn Cornelius

Joe Van Sweden, owner of Ark Design Construction & Roofing which recently installed new roofing on the Palo Cedro Village Shopping Center, knows residents will be curious when his crews start working on the roof over Holiday Market again, so he asked us to explain what is going on. Van Sweden explained that when Ark Design roofers began the project to replace the old wood shake roof with new fire and wind resistant composition shingles, they were concerned about the abrupt shift in roof pitch between the main roof and the covered walkway in front of Holiday Market.

The problem was accentuated by the use of 5/8-inch plywood on the main roof and 1.5-inch tongue and groove decking over the walkway. To mitigate for the uneven roof surface over the front wall of the store roofers installed a tapered Perlit filler strip to fill the gap. Despite their efforts and despite the fact the they were installing high quality Class A shingles according to the manufacturer’s specifications, the roof began to leak on both sides of the front wall during last month’s heavy rains. As soon as the weather allowed, crews from Ark and the shingle supplier were on the roof trying to figure out what had gone wrong.

What they found was that because the shingles are designed to seal together to increase their wind resistance, (they are warrantied to withstand winds up to 130 mph) they can also trap water under certain circumstances.

The trapped water got under the shingles and ran down the roof, collecting in the pitch change area where it eventually found a way through [probably via nail holes] and showed up as leaks. The shingle manufacturer, which Van Sweden does not wish to identify because the company is fully backing its warranty and paying for all repair costs, has come up with a solution to the problem.

The Ark Design repair crew will remove a four-foot wide section of shingles on either side of the pitch change area and install a self-adhering, rubberized under layment that will seal the nail holes and send the water on down the roof, preventing it from pooling and seeping through.

Van Sweden also said that the shopping center’s owner Gabrielson and Company had offered to pay for additional “feathering out” of the pitch change by installing a 24-inch wide filler strip instead of the 12-inch one already in place

Hey Branden, Just leaving and saw you were online. Good morning! John

Not attacking anyone john. Just rantin, you know how I go! Lol

I saw "BDUB:" and I just had to read what you wrote branden. You are correct, the shingles are going down in quality, and a lot of it is related to the asphalt quality. A lot of it is also related to lack of ventilation, especially on older homes that have been "re-insulated" I don't know what the answer is. Heck, if I did, I would be rich as well as "smart". No such luck however.

I do wonder about your referal to "old school roofers" (Lower case) so that doesn't pertain to me I suppose, but I wanted you to know that I did see that. Be careful on how big a brush you paint with big guy. Just yanking your chain. hang in there!

I think my point got missed completely so ill try to make it again with less words.... I think the entire market went to heck years ago and I find it almost funny that educated, experienced old school roofers wanna debate over which new compromise is causing the new problems when I used to tear off 40+ year old asphalt shingles that were in better condition than todays shingles after only ten years. I have a family member that has a 3:12 pitch trailer home with origional 3 tab shingles that are over 40yrs old and still look good and still aren't even curled at all. Even the owner of sherriff goslin roofing ( one of americas oldest roofing companies) has tracked and documented the intentional decrease in shingle quality over the years and even writes articles about it. This is no secret guys. I'm just going by what I've seen in my short life. Most of you have been shingling for longer than I've been alive. Why is this still not clear? In the bahamas and even south florida when someone buys a fiberglass roof they know its a ten year roof, no matter what shingle. Today a shingle is a shingle. Shingles were at their best several decades ago.today, Its the cheapest, most temporary roof money can buy. And by todays "green" standards, the most irresponsible roof of all. There's a place for them but let's stop talking about them like they're something they're not. Please!

No good deed will go unpunished!

Ive seen it too! In the North East,on the Coast and Inland.... H2O trapped above the Continous tar strip! I have also used Heritage Series TAMKO in the years past, we have gone back on jobs where the seal strip has never stuck and wind driven rain leaked at a shingle joint!Rusting nails in both cases and creating leaks and aggravation for the customer and myself. I feel as if i am working to hard for the Manufacturer in every aspect, selling product, system, warranty, price increase, etc. And then for the system to fail! Well thats just Great! What they just say ? Another price increase in FEB and March... 10 to 12% per..... And how bought them Pencils?

DdubyaC Said: Twill: Dont ya hate 3/12s They are the freakin half breed nobody wants. My customers always want dimensional shingles and I hate installing them on that low of a pitch. Also, those jobs are more attractive to the noobies.

Im just wondering what other guys do for a 3/12. Did you bid it for double felt app?

After talking to each shingle manufacturer, and even though it's approved like weaving a valley and not on the wrapper, I've been Dutch-Lapping them for 15 years or so. I've also been keeping track of them. Nary a leak, down to 2/12. 5-1/2" dimensionals get lowered to 5" exposure.

I don't remember the underlay spec.'d rather I&W it than double felt. In the Olden Golden days, we'd run the 3 tabs @ 4" on a 2:12. I don't think it mattered on a 3....3 tabs drain better than lams.

Also on that job the valleys were 30-40 feet long and I insisted on open valleys. They refused. The groundskeeper / maintenance man of all people pushed that through!! WaddInO, I'm just a dumb roofer

Because of the valleys I did not get the job. Problems are certainly headed their way.

Insurance paid to fix their roof,(It REALLY WAS HAIL DAMAGE this time!) they squandered the money.

I am pretty sure there was shall we say, some Payola involved.

Twill: Don't ya hate 3/12's They are the freakin half breed nobody wants. My customer's always want dimensional shingles and I hate installing them on that low of a pitch. Also, those jobs are more attractive to the noobies.

I'm just wondering what other guys do for a 3/12. Did you bid it for double felt app?

Well, I'll be switched! "I won't use SS becasue they're too hard and brittle."

I wouldn't ask you to not be frank, but that's quite a bit of hauteur there. I wouldn't walk on mere rose petals either. lol. We're not using them for firing pins, we're nailing shingles on with them. And trust me, they work just fine.

:woohoo:

(Tom, there's just no telling what GAF will do next. Their sales rep around here has to just keep smiling. Smiling and smiling and smiling. There's nothing he can do about any little ole thing. Not allowed to answer any questions. Not allowed to move a muscle. Elk is dead.)

egg Said: I will not allow myself to even think of using zinc-chromate on anything. To defend against the kind of problem mentioned here I have also increased my set-back and stopped doing any recovers. I havent installed any shingles with a continuous seal strip. I may be wrong, but I dont think the OC shingles I have seen around here have a continuous strip (any longer?)

I am also not buying some recent nonsense about eliminating granules in the nail zones so the bundles will palletize without distortion. It was never a problem before. If were shooting air-nails through a cold, humped shingle, we need to stop doing that.

I think they have gone to a spotted seal strip. I noticed GAF reduced the granules in the nail zones.

About 4 yr. ago I lost out on 600 sq. of 3:12. Last I knew they went w/ Duration.......

I notives that about the pencils too. I often just use pens and throw them away after awhile. If the surface showa the marks good, I'll use a scratch-awl.

The cellophane strip is not the problem, it is / was the continous sealant strip. The water would get in between the shingles at the butt joint and get on top of the sealant strip and then just pond there until it got the nail heads wet and they rusted. It happened before when they first came out with the self sealing shingles in the 60's and it is happening again with the new crop of engineers. Very funny, but also serious. No one can learn from past mistakes, they have to make them for themselves.

Most of the "cheaper" nails and such are made in China or overseas. They are in fact "cheaper too" Has anyone tried to sharpen a carpenters pencil lately? They are all msde over there too, and the lead keeps breaking off and sliding out before you can get a sharp point. For those of you that don't mark lines or strike them this is no big deal, but for those of us that have to build and frame and measure, it is a large PITA. Nuff said.