Conflicts between science and religion

Butting in here...Taking a literal position, there is pain because there are nerve endings. No nervous system, no pain. I may be mistaken, but it is my belief that only humankind equates pain with failure and pleasure with success. Pain and pleasure are like salt and pepper. In fact, success and failure are entirely human constructs. There are many other spices besides salt and pepper. Spices...species...specious....hmmm...Man is interested in meaning, cognitive stuff for the neocortex to churn and burn. God is only interested in manifestation. A tree doesn't stop growing because it loses a limb. Or even an entire trunk with all its limbs. I don't consider myself a genius if I merely observe the manifest. Every particle and electrical impulse has its value and is manifest. Manifestations of what? We have countless generations to explore it all. Some may conclude that all that implies merely the mechanistic. Try listening to a player piano or a cuckoo clock and take note of your level of engagement. My mother is very old and has a great number of brooms, all of them plastic. She adores and respects her 92 year old brother who spent his whole life developing broom-corn. Is there a logical conclusion to be drawn here and if so, how does compassion play into it? Should I point it out to her? Where do I seek guidance on this and what do I consider the authority? If Man were truly and faithfully, literally, made in God's image, all the game animals would come to us for guidance. If meaning is to be a source of enlightenment, in the end it cannot be merely a pit of bruised and revolving egos. Or can it? Do we even care and if not, why not?

Ok kage I'll try to engage your answer . I first want to understand your position. Are you saying there are not rules ? I'm not baiting here . It does appear without an explanation a weak position given the literature I read including but not limited to the Bible. No rules ?? It also bring to mind the question What is God ?? Then the really big question if you can answer Why is there so much pain suffering hate etc in the world if God is omnipresent , most powerful loving and wise ?? I'll stop here engaging your answer for the moment till you can explain . Where are are good Atheist friends ????

CIAK Said: Religion is this idea with rules .

Religion is man made its not God made..

God has a right to look down at us and either be angry and disappointed or amused at our folly. I'm hoping he has a sense of humor

He does have a sense of humor,He also has Love,Forgivness,Mercy,Grace,..etc ect.I own a truck that I drive down the road everyday,couldnt tell ya how it all works..my failure to explain the power didnt prevent me from using it,I dont need to explain how everything works to take the best advantage of these things.In God stuff same rule applies,I'll never understand the endless mercy of God,but I know i am saved by that mercy.We often forget that the power is not ours it is God's,and a human being isnt prevented from using that power simply by being unable to explain it.

Also The Sabbath was created for man,not man for the Sabbath (Mark2:27),Religion puts all the rules not the Lord..

Suppose you were God. And you had painstakingly created the earth, deposited it with minerals that mankind could use, guided the evolution of the animals and plants and then as your final achievement created man to populate and enjoy your creation.

You want to have a book of guidance for your mankind and since you're all-knowing you (like a magazine editor) already know that as a lowest common denominator, it's best to deliver the message in a 600 to 700 word format. Plus, initially you need to tailor it to a rather uneducated populous. And you, being God, can actually put it into a parable format and deliver two messages in that 600 to 700 words. One, the general order of creation, the other the law of the Sabbath. Amazing efficiency. But to your disappointment mankind uses this to divide and argue among themselves.

The die-hard believers obsess with a literal interpretation of the parable, in doing so denying the hard work of milleniums of your doing carefull, planned creation. The atheists deny you even exist, all the while instead worshipping the very things you created.

God has a right to look down at us and either be angry and disappointed or amused at our folly. I'm hoping he has a sense of humor.

egg and our other more spiritually-inclined thinkers whose world doesn't end with what is observed by science. To you guys the universe extends to higher levels of existence. Phenomena described by the ancient mystics for thousands of years. It is very creative bold thinking .Supported by empirical and other observations . What is seen ? The highest power GOD . Religion is this idea with rules . It enables human beings to participate in and realize this level. Where are our good Atheist"s on this topic ???

Old School, I hope you are well and staying busy (As you say: doing what others can't or won't, as I do also, and continuing to knock on a little wood as an act of humility and gratitude for the work we have, also as I do.)

You say, "... where did the material come from?" Historically this question has arisen from both the religious and scientific mind, two lines of inquiry that need not necessarily be mutually exclusive, no matter how different they might be from age to age and culture to culture.

I feel a couple of things bear mentioning. Aside from what we have delineated here...

http://www.chemicalelements.com/

...we are deeply embroiled in the process of understanding what the material is, not to mention quite indefinite and tentative about where it is or how it is.

Most of what we call 'material,' a rock for example, or a piece of wood, or even a cup full of water, these things that we take such comfort and security in knowing and handling, and bonding with, is comprised almost entirely of empty space. It's not the empty space that is perplexing us and it's not the empty space we are looking to fill.

Or is it? With heart, mind, body, and soul we all carry on. At the risk of offending some people, any people, I freely equate humankind with the starfish by the divine art of analogy. A starfish, battered by the pounding surf, clings tenaciously to his rock and is happy with his connection to this universe. Why is that? Especially when virtually all of his physical body is composed of empty space? I/we are very interested in the material structure of the universe and it remains of great importance to me every single day. But in the end, the material universe, at least as defined by these so-called solid particles we have mapped, is not going to provide a very satisfactory answer by itself. Excepting by way of analogy. Even the frailest human can make thought manifest. I take that as a small example of the 'kind' of power which arranges and rearranges the material universe.

Bill6208 Said:

kage Said:

Bill6208 Said: What constitutes a God anyway? Did he create the universe? If so where did he come from and what was he before the existence of anything? Did he come into being after the universe was formed? If so how was he created and who did it, would that mean then that there is a being greater than God?

God is eternal,no beginning no end.

But what is God? Just an idea in mens minds? Or an actual being that exists somewhere?

He is a living God,who lives in each one of us,He is omnipresent,who wants a relationship with us just the way we are,its not what we do to be saved,it is by His grace and love that we are saved.

Tinner IMO if someone lives like that,thinking they can fool God I would have to ask "are they really saved?"

kage Said:

Bill6208 Said: What constitutes a God anyway? Did he create the universe? If so where did he come from and what was he before the existence of anything? Did he come into being after the universe was formed? If so how was he created and who did it, would that mean then that there is a being greater than God?

God is eternal,no beginning no end.

But what is God? Just an idea in mens' minds? Or an actual being that exists somewhere?

The way I look at it is that if there is a "law" of nature or gravity or whatever, there has to be a "lawgiver" The later had to come first! Go back to the "big bang" What led up to it, and where did the material come from? Interesting!

We have to answer to ourselves. The lack of a god of any kind seems to be the motivation behind many likkers and other riff-raff. Of course, a good believer can kill/rob/rape/ six days a week, confess or otherwise absolve himself and put those sins in his past, and start all over again next week.

Bill6208 Said: What constitutes a God anyway? Did he create the universe? If so where did he come from and what was he before the existence of anything? Did he come into being after the universe was formed? If so how was he created and who did it, would that mean then that there is a being greater than God?

God is eternal,no beginning no end.

What constitutes a God anyway? Did he create the universe? If so where did he come from and what was he before the existence of anything? Did he come into being after the universe was formed? If so how was he created and who did it, would that mean then that there is a being greater than God?

The things accomplished by ancient peoples are amazing (too numerous to list) and would seem to have required a greater knowledge then can be accounted for in thier apparent development, could it be an alien race was here and provided guidence? In that possibility perhaps they needed a labor force that could comprehend thier needs and enhanced natural evolution and in a sense "created" Humanity. Could our God really be a little grey man from a different galaxy? Could it be the alien was a criminal who came here and exploited the population till he was tracked down by his own and punished for interfering with a planets evolution.

the thing about God questions is I always come up with a lot more questions then answers. I've always liked to consider possibilities and with questions like this the possible is endless :)

That being said copper what about the idea in general of existence ? Did God create an order of existence ? Some sense of rank . One species is greater or less great than the next ? Science recognizes this as key to the idea at the center of understanding . Like atoms compose molecules then cells then organisms etc till you have societies then on a lager scale whole functional systems on and until at some level you reach humans and ????? that is the question .

God created the atheists B)