Cedar Shake Problem

I have been working on a cedar job with another roofing contractor and have a staining issue. First off we are using #1 prime 24in certigrade sawn shakes. Roof is a 12/12 with gaf ice and water shield at the eave, synthetic felt on the rest, vented edge metal at the eave, and cedar breather under the shakes, the shakes are set at 7.5in exposure.

We are getting staining on the facia usually the first warm day after a rain. The stains are dark brown/black in color and coming down between the gutter and facia. You can see a mark every couple inches or so, I will try to post pics in a day or two.

Could this be a condinsation problem or could the shakes be sucking water? There have been a couple people by to look at it but no sure answers. The job is in eastern Pa if it makes a difference. Thanks for any help.>>>

Yes the shakes are medium resawn, photo #3 is at an odd angle. This section of roof has been completed for about 2 months now and it has rained quite a few times since it was completed. It usually starts to drip a day or 2 after a good rain. It has done this before and after the gutters were installed.>>>

I have seen this discoloration before when you get some of the shake bundles that are water logged, or pond dried, and they will leach down onto the paper underneath. These look like medium resawns. Has it rained since installation?>>>

On any application we always install the drip edge and then run the underlayment with the bottom edge overhanging the gutter to your desired overhang. We always run at 1 - 1/2" overhang. Any condensation or moisture would then drip into your gutter.

I suspect moisture is venting up through your metal vented edge and is forming condensation on the underside of the shakes on the first few courses. This then tends to build up to the point of running down the GAF ice and water shield and "if" it only extends to the edge of your roof deck with no overhang, it probably drips in behind your vented edge metal and weeps down the facia.

Just a thought without seeing anything but the photo's.

BTW What is the shot in photo #3 The shakes look mighty thin?>>>

http://www2.snapfish.com/slideshow/AlbumID=1710900007/PictureID=65779606007/a=79136959_79136959/

http://www2.snapfish.com/slideshow/AlbumID=1710900007/PictureID=65779605007/a=79136959_79136959/otsc=SHR/otsi=SPIClink/COBRAND_NAME=snapfish/

http://www2.snapfish.com/slideshow/AlbumID=1710900007/PictureID=65780072007/a=79136959_79136959/otsc=SHR/otsi=SPIClink/COBRAND_NAME=snapfish/>>>

Finally somebody else who understands how to measure in knuckles. Lanny is my man. By the way, Lanny, I never heard whether the Bumpa worked out or not. I came very close to buying one back then. Still using my ancient hilift when the need arises. And my scissorbed almost every day.>>>

Is there standing water in the gutter? That could be the source is if it's condensation. Unless you left the old felt on, the I&W would be the only thing up there that would cause the stains to be dark.>>>

- no we are not using shake liner - cedar breather is a plastic mat that is layed between the underlayment and the shakes to allow air to move - the facia is white .032 alum, the stains are coming from under the vented drip edge metal, that is why the stains are on the facia and not in the gutter - the shake have a solid 2 inch overhang plus 3/4 inch with the drip edge I will get photos Monday>>>

---synthetic felt...Does that mean you are not using 18 inch shake liner? ---I cannot see how the roof could possibly be leaking with 7.5 exposure. Add 12/12 pitch and I guarantee that roof is not leaking. Unless there is some type of major installation screw-up...I would look for another explanation. ---What is cedar breather??? ---The color of the staining sounds like a normal water stain if the facias are cedar. Could be water stain on any wood, really. ---I would check the gutters... ---My guess is that there is not enough overhang into the gutter so water is running down behind the gutter. I assume you used starter shingles at the gutter edge??? We normally run the shakes "2 knuckles" or 2 inches past the facia for a normal drip edge into the gutter. I have seen people leave a 1 inch overhang and that is too short so water will get behind the gutter. 12/12 pitch should give you some help, however. ---I would like to know if the facia is raw cedar, painted , stained...so as to know what kind of situation would leave the markings you describe. Water will not stain primed & painted facia. Lanny>>>

I haven't done shakes in more than 20 years. But my first question would be how is the water getting behind the gutter. My other thought is regarding the underlayment, how or why would the water be getting onto the underlayment? In my tiny little mind, if water is getting to the underlayment, then the shakes may not be installed correctly.

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Just off the top my instincts side with Ed. I would be most suspicious of the backside of the S/A underlayment, but without seeing the shakes and the assembly there's not much to hang the hat on. Are you using synthetic shake interlacement? What product? I'm hearing you say the staining is coming out from under the shakes, not off them. Yes? Why doesn't the stain go into the gutter?>>>

Does your warranty cover stains?

It seems as if the underlayment may be leaching out some of the asphalt or other by products.

Ed>>>