another reason why the economy is suffering

---If you have never studied this you are in for some shocking info. Very few people know what is happening or why & how the gov't is ruining the economy. This is not some conspiracy theory. Rather this is factual info. The article is long but worth reading if you want to understand the problem and possible solutions. And yes, the solutions require voting for real conservatives not the usual crop of Republicans so that these laws can be changed... ---There are laws of sowing and reaping that are inviolate. Be informed! Otherwise you become "useful idiots" to those who are changing this country into a 3rd world nation.

http://www.actionamerica.org/taxecon/ticktick.shtml

Lanny

That is called a "grief factor"

One ironic note about Keynesian economics. J Maynard Keynes went nearly bankrupt twice believing in a formula he devised to trade international currency. He did this because he envied the lifestyle of his top 1% friends, virtually all of them rich from inherited wealth. This despite the fact he was well paid,(he was the equivalent of Geitner in England) and married to a famous ballerina.

I did a repair today. The guy had an Obama sign on his lawn when I estimated it last week. After hearing the class warfare garbage from Obie today, I raised my labor rate on the guy $10 per hour. All my future customers better rip the Obama stickers off their Subarus, Volvos and Priusses if they want my regular price. Now that's what I call fairness.

Natty says, "The flaw in your argument is if no one spends, then no one gets any income." ---It is not all or nothing. We all spend...the point is OVERSPENDING...or spending what you don't have. Less spending would greatly benefit the economy. Debt is killing the economy. ---Keynesian economics which is what the gov't bases many of its policies on is completely wrong.

Natty says, "I believe the point of your article was that an income tax was causing the rich (capitalists) to pick up their toys and expatriate which is utterly absurd for the reasons I gave." ---Huh??? You must not have read the article because many wealthy ARE LEAVING this year and next year. Millions have ALREADY LEFT!!! Of course, it is far more than just an income tax increase. But why give the wealthy one more reason to leave?

Natty says, "The income tax was passed in 1913 to tax the rich and make them pay their fair share of taxes." ---And who pays all the taxes today? The middle class get stuck with much of it even tho it was intended for the rich. This point should make everyone reject the "tax the rich" baloney. "Tax the rich" is just another excuse to raise taxes on all of us.

---As for "corporate welfare"...that is just an emotionally charged label to try and sway opinion without any substance. What it really means is allowing corporations to KEEP more of their hard earned money through various tax deductions instead of their earnings being confiscated by the tax man. The phrase assumes that what a company earns is OWNED BY THE GOV'T but "welfare" allows them to keep some of it. What a brainwash! ---On the above point I do not support any business being given gov't subsidies or advantages. Businesses should either make money or go out of business. However, businesses that do make money should not be penalized for their success. If a business loses money it SHOULD fail. By allowing it to fail others with more skill and talent will take the same business and make a success of it. However, when the gov't supports a bad business idea or model it perpetuates incompetance and hinders or even prevents competance.

Lanny

lanny Said: ---Obama wants to raise the tax on anyone making over 200k per year to 39.6%. That is NOT rich. In fact, that might include many roofing company owners who WORK HARD for their money.

Lanny

The income tax was passed in 1913 to tax the rich and make them pay their fair share of taxes. Back then, the rich made their money from accumulated capital. Few people even today who labor for their money are rich. How many who labor for a living make over $200K?- some doctors, some business owners? Obama is just as bamboozled by the Plutocrats as the other side of the political spectrum.

lanny Said: ---People have spent themselves into too much debt. I say tax spending so there will be less of it. Do not tax earning so there will be more of it. ---But I suppose this is too simple...

Lanny

The flaw in your argument is if no one spends, then no one gets any income.

I believe the point of your article was that an income tax was causing the rich (capitalists) to pick up their toys and expatriate which is utterly absurd for the reasons I gave. People with accumulated wealth are not going to stick it under their mattress no matter where they live. They are going to invest and maintain control no matter what. The problem is that they have bamboozled us into believing that society will collapse unless they are given all of these tax perks. The real problem has always been throughout history that the fat cats will always try to take too much off the top of any deal whether the system be feudalism, capitalism, socialism, or communism.

Some love to rally against welfare but what about the massive corporate welfare? We don't need to devise schemes on how to divide the economic pie. We need to instill fairness in the system whereby everyone gets a shot at building more economic pies.

The income tax is actually the most fair tax because people pay according to their gains. The problem with the income tax is that it is so easy to cheat because it depends on the honest disclosure of one's income.

I'm glad to see we roofers can still voice opinions freely without getting flamed. I was reading about the Phillies/Cowboys game and how Michael Vicks got a serious concussion (everybody remember Michael Vicks?) and I made the mistake of reading the comments attached to the article. The one that gave me a concussion was this one: "By Vicks own rules, he needs to be put down. The question is....how. Hanging? Electrocution? Drowning? Fire?? Or just bash in his skull???"

My word! Easy access to the internet: not always such a good thing.

Uh...............um fellas........hey Guys!.....................................................YOO HOO!.........Um.....Uh ...................................

...98% of voting Americans diapprove of your message

---Yup... ---70 years of Soviet communism did not bring prosperity. Only freedom and an honest judicial system can bring prosperity.

Lanny

You make is sound like they are stupid. They know exactly what they are doing and what the results they are trying to achieve are. They are getting them too. the will keep on pushing until they get the "Crisis" they are after and then they will roll out the "solution" which will be more programs that take away whatever freedoms we still have. It has been this way for centuries and it will continue. We are just "worker bees" to be used up and thrown away when they are finished with us. We must be fools to continue working for them.

Natty says, "-Rich people don't work. (The poor man says, "I work hard for my money". The rich man says, "My money works hard for me.")" ---Obama wants to raise the tax on anyone making over 200k per year to 39.6%. That is NOT rich. In fact, that might include many roofing company owners who WORK HARD for their money. ---Add 15.3% Fica that self-imployed people pay and you are over 50%. Not to mention state taxes and a host of other taxes on practically everything including the air you breath. ---And whenever they raise taxes on the rich somehow it always comes down to the middle class as well. ---What no one seems to understand is that there is a point of "diminishing returns." That is, by raising certain taxes you get LESS money. That happened on the luxury tax they passed some years back on boats. Sales went down so low that the industry almost went bankrupt and far less tax was collected. They quickly rescinded the tax.

Lanny

Well put.

---Natty says, "The article is sales tax propaganda- a highly regressive tax." ---All taxes are regressive. The question is, which tax do you want? ---My state does NOT have an income tax. We have a 9.5% sales tax. The Democrats are always pushing for an income tax. And this is a very liberal state that just passed gay marriage and legalized pot. But an income tax always gets voted down. ---Here is a maxim...you always get less of what you tax. So, do you want less income or less spending? I would say that less spending is a no-brainer. ---An income tax is a tax on production. A sales tax is a tax on spending. ---Income equals production equals work equals success. We want more income. Spending equals consuming. Spending is the opposite of saving. We need less spending and MORE saving. Why are we in the economic mess today??? Simply put, too much debt, ie too much spending. Certainly it is not too much saving!!! ---People have spent themselves into too much debt. I say tax spending so there will be less of it. Do not tax earning so there will be more of it. ---But I suppose this is too simple...

Lanny

It doesn't even matter anymore. the republicans, conservatives, tea party, etc. whatever you want to call them, are in the minority now. there is nothing that can be done until the numbers come back to their side.

sit back and enjoy the ride. and get ready to jump through all kinds of hoops and be able to change and adapt to change.

The article is sales tax propaganda- a highly regressive tax. The working person pays most of the taxes. I don't see anywhere in the article where FICA taxes are mentioned. Few have noticed that the working person pays a flat tax rate of around 15% on every dollar they earn- no deductions. Rich people don't pay this tax. The federal govt has been operating off of the excess from FICA taxes for decades. The problem is that somewhere around 2009, revenue from FICA fell behind the amount of benefits paid out. And somewhere around 2018, all FICA taxes (supposedly stashed in some mythical fund) that have ever been paid in will have been paid out and gone.

Other observations: -The only people who must fear the IRS are tax cheats. -If you are paying taxes, you are making money, duh. -The income tax is a tax on income. -Rich people don't work. (The poor man says, "I work hard for my money". The rich man says, "My money works hard for me.") -The biggest win for the plutocrats is convincing most that capital gains must be taxed at the lower rates (around 15%max). -The rich rarely risk their own capital. They make their money by speculation and borrowing (using OPM-other people's money).

The article did not state how much income was actually taxed. And like OS's smoke & mirrors, I wonder if ALL Americans income was confiscated for a year if it would run this Dem/Rep created Behemoth Waste Pit? Prolly not.

So what funds it (partially) beyond income tax, is all of those hidden taxes and taxes on American Goods and Services.

Yet this "American" (?) government does not tax foreign goods (tarrifs) beyond the sales tax. That I am aware of.

So conceivably this "American" (?) government supports evil, pollution and all manner of death and extremism/ blood sucking at the expense of........none other than .....The Working American