All USA Homeowners are Pro Choice!

You miss the point, several points actually. The carpenters union is behind the ICEC push because they want control. Whether sub or ee, they all need to do things the right way. The low ballers and the hacks are another story altogether. In regards to the "bulletin", P&C insurance with the support of bought and paid for state legislators are trying to control you and your business. You for that? You for P&C insurance and the state throwing up more hurdles and hoops for you to jump over and through? 20% of contractors out there are worthy - the other 80% will put themselves out of business in 5 years and be replaced by the next group.

My question is, what happens when one falls and is hurt? Whose WC is that person under? If you follow the money, you will find out eventually who the employer is.

In Michigan anyway, even if you own your own byusiness, you personally can't collect on WC. Your employees can though. It is unbelievable the stories one hears about people collecting on Workmans comp. The insurance requirements are quite strict if one is to get a job with most GC's Often times, we have to list them as an additonally insured on our liability policy. You annot start a job unless you have the insurance certs in. We require the same thing of any one working for us. a 2 million dollar limit, and that is normal around here. We are not that big either. I don't know how they get away with it out there. Are they all hispanic?

Rocky....Here in Colorado, and most prodomently, from the continental divide-east.....There are basically no employees in residential roofing.....It's a "pet-peeve" of mine, ever since relocating here some 20 yrs ago....Most all residential roofing contractors misrepresent their employees as "Independent subcontractors", in a blatant act to avaoid paying appropriate labor burfens, (i.e., WC ins, FICA, Fed & state UI, etc,,,,)...AND, it flies!....

That's a definite no-no in most states west of the CD....and most all have state licensing...Hmmmmm..Could there be a connection? ;)

I really have no problems with someone subbing work...as long as they are paying all the things that are required of me. A lot of people do it and most of them quickly realize that they can't make it. The cream will rise to the top, and the good ones will become just like us. The dregs will fall out and they will be replaced with other dregs. There is a long line of people waiting to get into the business.

What Rocky said. Make them cross the "t's" and dot the "I's" and it will be fair.

Here in Arizona anyone paid more than $600 annually is either an employee or a sub-contractor. All subs or anyone paid on a 1099 must produce workers comp and liabilty or the contractor who hired them will end up paying for all the additional costs. What's really nice here is that roofers must be licensed and GC's are not allowed to do roofing, except shingles and 90lb patios.

Amen Twill & OS!!!!!

If they are independant "contractors" then let them have all the overhead and the insurances and the tools and let them buy the materials and bid the jobs. If they just do labor with my tools and using my materials on my schedule, then they are "employees" and should be treated as such.

I have no problem with the state making them toe the line. No one else is, and it is tearing up the pricing because they have no overhead. It is cheating. If the state said that you had to have 52 cards in the deck to play solitaire and a bunch of guys were out there playing with half a deck, would you bitch about that too?

In Indiana here the 1099 tax cheats dominate. Don't know if this fits your theories Larry. But when the 18 yr old High School drop out packing shingles is a "sub-contractor", then corruption is near its peak........or it's just business as usual.