Winners highlight year’s best spray polyurethane foam insulation, roofing and specialty applications as well as coatings projects.

The Spray Polyurethane Foam Alliance (SPFA), the educational and technical resource to the spray polyurethane foam (SPF) industry, today announced the winners of the 16th Annual SPFA National Industry Excellence Awards.  Sponsored by Arkema and Evonik, the industry awards program showcases many of the industry’s recent and most noteworthy projects completed by contractors located across the nation, highlighting best-in-class applications of spray polyurethane foam (SPF) in insulation, roofing and specialty applications, as well as elastomeric coatings applications. The SPFA recognized all winners on Wednesday, March 1 during the program’s official awards ceremony held at SprayFoam 2022 Convention & Expo in San Antonio, Texas.

“This year’s winners impressed us all with their extraordinary work,” says Denny Vandewater, owner of Sadler Coating Systems, SPFA past-president and chairman of the 2022 SPFA Awards Program. “As always the competition proved stiff and our judges were thoroughly pleased with all of the entries.” 

The awards program recognizes stellar projects representing best practices in six core categories which include: Commercial Enclosure SPF, Residential Enclosure SPF, Roof SPF Less Than 40,000 Square Feet, Roof SPF Over 40,000 Square Feet, SPF Specialty Applications and Elastomeric Roof Coatings.

The winners and runners up of the 16th Annual SPFA National Industry Excellence Awards include: 

• Polyseal Insulation with supplier Huntsman Building Solutions for the Fort Greely Missile Field #4 Defense System (WINNER – Commercial Enclosure SPF)
• Foam Applications, LLC with supplier HENRY Co. for the New Headquarters for Foam Applications, LLC project (Runner up – Commercial Enclosure SPF)
• BREMS Energy Solutions with supplier Natural Polymers for Chauvin Legacy Home (WINNER – Residential Enclosure SPF)
• Callahan Spray Foam Insulation with supplier SWD for the Beautiful Smith Lake House (Runner up – Residential Enclosure SPF)
• Wedge Roofing with supplier Cal Roofing Supply for Quest Church & Day Care (WINNER – Roof SPF Less Than 40,000 Square Feet)
• West Roofing Systems, Inc. with supplier Carlisle Roof Foam and Coatings for Spencer Forge & Manufacturing – Building 1, 7 and 9 (Runner up – Roof SPF Less Than 40,000 Square Feet)
• Universal Coatings Inc. with supplier General Coatings Manufacturing Corp for SoCal Logistics Airport Boeing Hangar Roof Replacement (WINNER – Roof SPF Over 40,000 Square Feet)
• Henderson-Johnson Co., Inc. with suppliers Everest Foam and Progressive Materials for Cobleskill Richmondville CSD (Runner up – Roof SPF Over 40,000 Square Feet)
• Polyseal Insulation with supplier HMI for Anton Anderson Memorial Tunnel Structural Foam Stabilization (WINNER – SPF Specialty Applications)
• JAG Lifting Solutions and supplier NCFI for Lake Erie Shoreline Erosion Prevention (Runner up – SPF Specialty Applications)
• Wedge Roofing with supplier Cal Roofing Supply for 1960’s Steel Building (WINNER – Elastomeric Roof Coatings)
• RAM – Roof Asset Management and supplier National Coatings Company for Magnolia Business Park (Runner up – Elastomeric Roof Coatings)

“The SPFA Board of Directors extends a warm congratulations to all of our winners,” says Bryan Heldreth, president of the SPFA. “Each of these projects represents excellence in the application of either spray foam or elastomeric coatings.”

For the first time ever as an added incentive to all award entrants, the SPFA also awarded a grand prize. Universal Coatings, the winner in the Roofing SPF Over 40,000 square feet category was drawn from a hat of all of this year’s category winners and will receive a local digital marketing package worth $10,000.

The annual awards are an integral part of SprayFoam 2022 Convention & Expo, the nation’s largest annual event dedicated to spray polyurethane foam. This year’s event featured: a keynote with construction business expert and author Shawn Van Dyke, numerous educational sessions, a robust exhibits hall, SPFA Professional Certification Programs and Exams, an annual Golf Tournament, VIP events and an entertainment-filled Close-Out Event Party.  Attendees represent the complete Spray Polyurethane Foam industry and value chain, as well as the general public. 

Huntsman Building Solutions is Platinum Sponsor of the 2022 event. Additional event sponsors and partners include: Gold Sponsors General Coatings Manufacturing Corp, Universal Polymers Corporation, Thermoseal, Honeywell, SES Polyurethane Systems, Accufoam and Gaco; Silver Sponsors BASF and Carlisle Construction Materials; Bronze Sponsors International Fireproof Technology Inc., Natural Polymers and BOSS; NIE Award Sponsors Arkema and Evonik; Premier Media Sponsors Sprayfoam Professional, Sprayfoam, Roofing Contractor, Walls & Ceilings and CoatingsPro magazines; Media Sponsor Roofing magazine; and Industry Partners Spray Foam World Wide, Silicone Expo, NRCA and International Roofing Expo.

To inquire about attending, exhibiting or sponsoring the 2023 event, please contact Kelly Marcavage at kmarcavage@sprayfoam.org. Additional event information is available at www.sprayfoam.org/sprayfoam2022. 

About Spray Polyurethane Foam Alliance (SPFA)

Founded in 1987, the Spray Polyurethane Foam Alliance (SPFA) is the voice, and educational and technical resource for the spray polyurethane foam industry. The Alliance is a 501(c)6 trade association comprised of contractors, manufacturers, and distributors of polyurethane foam, related equipment, and protective coatings, inspections, surface preparations, and other services. The organization supports the best practices and the growth of the industry through a number of core initiatives, including educational programs and events; the SPFA ISO-17024 Professional Certification Program providing professionals with the tools to differentiate themselves from competition and a reference for customers looking to hire qualified contractor services; technical services covering publication of literature and guidelines, safety materials, and representation of the industry with various construction code bodies; federal and state advocacy; industry promotion efforts including an annual convention and expo drawing 1,600 SPF professionals, publication of Sprayfoam Professional Magazine; and research and networking opportunities for members.

By Evelyn Witterholt, RCS Reporter. 

Join Heidi as she speaks with Will Lorenz about how to approach the HOA market with progressive solutions for shortages and cost savings. 

In Season 4, Episode 9 of Roofing Road Trips, Heidi J. Ellsworth spoke with Will Lorenz, CEO of General Coatings. The two discuss the growth of the spray foam and coatings market and how contractors can utilize these products to provide new solutions to markets like the HOA world. 

Will spoke at length about the work General Coatings has done with HOAs, a market that many contractors might not know how to best approach. He told us about the challenges roofers face when communicating to associations about roofing jobs for a building with many tenants. While some people may be on board with changes you want to make to that roof, there might be a little pushback from others.  

He says that a good way to approach these projects is by giving them a durable roof that will protect their home, but also to work on the project around their schedule too. “Many of these folks are off working or they have their family residents in there that have multiple generations, and they can't afford to have these things damaged by inclement weather,” he said. “They want to have a roof system that can be installed by the time they get back home from work.” 

General Coatings offers spray foam roof systems that are great for these single roof projects. Will tells us that it is not only a high-performing solution, but it also helps clients save more money than if they had an insulated roof system installed instead. It also allows them to make repairs and recoat the roof every few years as opposed to continuously reroofing their whole roof every 10-15 years. 

“I know it's hard in the beginning getting them all together to meet and coming up with a solution and a budget,” Will says. “But at the end of the day, they're all extremely vested in finding the right solution. And so I think it's about providing that.” 

Listen to the entire podcast to learn more about spray foam roofing systems and providing solutions to the HOA market.

Learn more about General Coatings in their RoofersCoffeeShop® Directory or visit their website at www.generalcoatings.net. 

By Evelyn Witterholt, RCS Reporter. 

Don’t miss this special episode of Coffee Conversations where we discuss the growth of the roofing industry with Gen Z leaders! 

Season 3, Episode 9 of Coffee Conversations, sponsored by General Coatings, welcomes Gen Z members and future leaders of the roofing industry. Join RCS Producer Megan Ellsworth as she discusses the growing industry with future Gen Z leaders Rohan Gupta, Ayushi Raj Dua and Declan Fay. 

Rohan Gupta from Huntington Beach, California is currently attending the University of Southern California in the Chemical Engineering program. He has a long history with the roofing industry as he was introduced to it at a very young age. “I was introduced to roofing about 10 years ago when our family business Polycoat purchased General Coatings,” he said. “I do plan to work in the family business after I graduate.” 

Ayushi Raj Dua from New Delhi, India is studying for her master’s degree in construction science and management at Clemson University. She worked as an architect for two years but recently decided to change her career path. Right now, she’s taking a roofing course at Clemson and has found it to be very eye-opening. 

She states that the roofing industry is “attracting people from different backgrounds,” and that roofing companies “can definitely give people of our generation a good opportunity to go out and get to be in the real world and understand how it really works.” 

Declan Fay is also studying construction science and management at Clemson University, but he also participates in numerous extracurricular activities. The student from Westchester, New York told us all about his involvement in the Roofing Alliance’s student competition. He will be competing at this year’s International Roofing Expo! “I’m looking forward to talking with people at IRE next week,” Declan told us. 

Declan also expressed interest in a career in the roofing industry. He said, “Through the Clemson roofing courses, I’ve been exposed to a lot of different routes in the roofing industry. Whether it’s estimating or with contractors or manufacturers, I’m still really interested in all of those and construction in general.” 

All of them emphasized how they want good work-life balance and freedom to express themselves in their future careers. We can’t wait to see what these future Gen Z leaders do next! 

Read, Listen or Watch the entire Coffee Conversations to learn more about the Gen Z perspective of the roofing industry!

Editor's note: The following is the transcript of an live interview with Will Lorenz from General Coatings. You can read the interview below or listen to the podcast.

Speaker 1:
Welcome to Roofing Road Trips with Heidi. Explore the roofing industry through the eyes of a long term professional within the trade. Listen for insights, interviews, and exciting news in the roofing industry today.

Heida Ellsworth:
Hello, and welcome to another Roofing Road Trips from Roofer's Coffee Shop. This is Heidi Ellsworth and I am here today with Will Lorenz from General Coatings. Hello, Will.

WIll Lorenz:
Hello Heidi. Thank you for the invite. We love being on your show and it's great to share ideas with you and come forth to talk about all the great things that are going on in the roofing business, and General Coatings is proud to be a sponsor and part of the program going forward.

Heida Ellsworth:
Oh. Well, I love having you. You've been on Coffee Conversations. You've been on Roofing Road Trips. You and I work on a lot of different projects together and associations, and I always look forward to this time when we can talk about what's happening out there.

WIll Lorenz:
Indeed. And roofing is what's happening. In the last two years, everybody is doing roofing and it's a great success for all of us and we're excited to see where the market can grow and all the good work that people are doing. We're going to have much better roofs in 2025 because they all got done in 2021 and 2022 and 2023.

Heida Ellsworth:
So true. So true. And today I had asked you, we talked ahead of time, and I just was saying we would really like to hear you... And I'm just going to say this up front, Will. You always have such great insights, both on a macro and a micro look on internationally, US. One of the areas that I think scares contractors and scares probably a lot of people are homeowner associations, the HOA world. Especially in California, but everywhere, it's like, "Am I going to get sued? How does this work working with all these different people?" And you and General Coatings have really done some great HOA work. So let's talk about that today.

WIll Lorenz:
Yeah. I think with the housing circumstance that seems to be a challenge across the country, clearly the builders are trying to come up with apartments or HOAs that can put people in a better circumstance than a smaller apartment in downtown city X. And people are trying to get out a little bit of ways, and these type of facilities allow many people to live together, but then they have one single roof across this, which has many tenants. And that can be the challenge for a roofer to go and work with that association and explain what benefits they're going to get on this roof system and how durable and performing it's going to be, but yet get everybody on board because there's usually always somebody that's really in favor of it and there's someone else who's always trying to present some challenges for the roofer, or for the supplier too.

WIll Lorenz:
And we want to try and help them with if they have a good performing roof system, really that's where the questions get answered. If the roof is water tight and performing, you've done what their job is and everybody should be satisfied. And we particularly think that spray foam as a great recover system over these existing roof system is just the way to go. Many of these climates are hot, dry deserty kind of environments that people seem to retire to when they want to get out of the cold and snow, and spray foam adds insulation to it and waterproofing and just makes it an easy, simple solution. And we're just surprised that it hasn't taken off in all the other inner cities as much as it's done in the Arizonas and the Phoenixes and the Las Vegases and the palm deserts that really enjoy having greater insulation and a great weatherproof system.

Heida Ellsworth:
And when you're thinking about this, so many times when contractors are reroofing a single building, whether that maybe has tenants in it or it's a single family home, everything that's in it of course, that's our whole job. That's the whole roofing industry's job is to protect all the treasures and protect the families and all the people who are in there, keeping them dry. But when you're talking about these HOAs, many families, and it rolls downhill, you get one leak and all of a sudden you don't know how many different tenants or different folks are going to be affected by that. So I would love for you to talk a little bit more about that with the spray foam. We can go on forever. There's so many benefits on here. But what are you seeing with really the systems that are making a difference for these HOAs using spray foam and coatings?

WIll Lorenz:
Sure. Well, let's examine the current building that you have there. So you have a building that has let's say a dozen tenants in there. Each of these person has a bathroom, they have a kitchen flute coming up, they have an AC unit, they have all sorts of complicated things on the roof that need to be sealed up because really where water comes in, if there's going to be a leak, is where there's some sort of penetration. It's around a drain, it's around a pipe, it's around an AC unit. Those are the places that most good roofers focus on making sure they're well sealed, and spray foam has that ability to go in there and expand and seal around it, and then it bonds well to all those irregular surfaces and it's sealed up.

WIll Lorenz:
And so if water can't get in, it's going to be a performing roof and then you have a happy tenant. The second thing is most people with, as you say, their treasures in there, they don't want them to put them at risk. Many of these folks are off working or they have their family residents in there that has multiple generations and they can't afford to have these things damaged by in climate weather that gets in because of a quick storm that came in while reroofing it and tearing it all off and starting over. They want to have a roof system that can be installed when they get back home from work. That area of their roof has been done and there was no risk to their contents. And spray foam can be that recover system that you can put right on the existing roof system, provided that it's a single roof to begin with.

WIll Lorenz:
So you just have a second layer roof system. Then it's the perfect system. Additionally, in many of these climates, as we said, hot and dry climates, there isn't sufficient insulation. A lot of these original roof decks were put down with basically just a roof system on top of plywood. There really weren't much insulation on it. And so if you add an inch or two of spray foam on top of it, it's a whole world of difference in keeping that warm temperature from getting in, increasing their AC bills, and also causing them disruption because it's different temperatures during the day and the night. And so people are well satisfied by having an insulated roof deck, and spray foam gives those multiple benefits that an HOA, which has got many people to satisfy, solves.

WIll Lorenz:
I know it's hard in the beginning getting them all together to meet and come up with a solution and a budget. But at the end of the day, they're all really extremely vested in finding the right solution. And so I think it's about providing that. And then the great contractors that I've seen in the west here and in the Southwest who do it, they have a good hands on approach telling them exactly what they're going to do and they deliver on that promise. And with General Coatings products, we help them deliver on that promise. And we're just glad to be a part of that solution that keeps their roof dry.

Heida Ellsworth:
And let's talk about energy savings. You started that out at the beginning, but as a tenant or someone who either owns their facility or is renting, I'm paying my own electric bill. And so to have that happen on the roofing system to keep the electricity down, that's a huge benefit.

WIll Lorenz:
It is. When you look at ways to go forward as smart business people and family people, you look at conservation as being one of the best things you can do. Grow your bank account, you'll be more successful. Same thing with your house. If you use less energy, you'll have better net savings and money that you can spend or money that you can save for future investments. So the idea of having your energy bill going up through the stack or up through the roof is just not a wise decision. And so if you can get a system that's insulated and give you that money back so that you don't pay Edison or whoever, that's just the best way going forward.

WIll Lorenz:
Money is tight and people need to be able to put that in their pocket. And spray foam roof systems allow them to keep more of that in their pocket than an insulated roof system. And so I think it's a smart way forward. And again, you're not tearing off it, so you're not putting in the landfill. It's a great, safe solution for people in these climates that need a roof system but really can't afford to keep upgrading to a new start over roof system every five or 10, 15 years. They need something that is continuous, and a spray foam roof system allows them to continue to go back and recoat and repair and continue to have that roof perform for decades.

Heida Ellsworth:
And it's a great opportunity for the roofing contract too, through their service and maintenance program, to be able to get on that roof, fall and spring, and really stay in touch with that HOA so that they aren't out there looking around.

WIll Lorenz:
It is. And a thing I find about spray foam roofs is even if you put a penetration on there where somehow someone drops a screwdriver, let's say they're up there fixing your AC unit, it's an isolated small hole that can be easily patched and repaired, typically with caulk and a coating on top of it. And so it doesn't take much, and it generally doesn't involve into even a leak. It just looks like it's a mechanical damage that's easily repairable. Other system, let's say a membrane or something, if you punch a hole in it, boy water can come in and go everywhere. So who wants to be put that person at risk about that?

Heida Ellsworth:
No, no. And so as these contractors are getting in front of these HOA boards, we know plenty of contractors who are just amazing at this. Their whole business is around that. But for those who maybe haven't done a lot of HOA work, getting in front of the boards, really being able to present all of these different benefits, General Coatings will help. Right? You help go in with the contractors?

WIll Lorenz:
Yes. Yeah, our sales team likes to get out in front with our contracting partners, meet up with their partners and explain to them the value of working with that contractor and our products to get a watertight roof system. We know that at the end of the day, the collective interest of an HOA is to do what the will of the owners are. And the owners are there saying, "We need a durable roof system." And General Coatings, with their Ultra-Thane systems, can be part of that solution every time.

Heida Ellsworth:
And I love how when you really think of about it, that big picture of talking about the newer homeowners, especially in HOAs, you're probably going to have a lot more millennials be first time homeowners on condos, however that works, or retired, like you said earlier. And so for them to be able to talk about the sustainability story, about the durability, and about the protection of their assets, I think those types of things matter. Not filling landfills, being able to save energy costs. Really, there's just such a great story here.

WIll Lorenz:
I can recall when my wife and I started out, we didn't have much. And so the condo and HOA complex that we were part of, we wanted not to spend a great deal of money on air conditioning and heating. We wanted it to be able to go out to dinner or to, in our case, we had a new family right away, to support money there for the raising of our kids. And so it's the best interest of the people who live there to get a smart system, and saving energy with your roof system is just a great first step.

Heida Ellsworth:
I think that is important. And one of the things that I wanted to also ask you about is how does this roofing system work with solar?

WIll Lorenz:
Well, when you look at a solar system put on, you've got a couple ways to go about it. You can put on something that has a mechanically attached stanchion, so they're drilling holes in your roof, they're putting a piece of metal down there with screws and trying to seal around it so that it can support these panels. Or you have typically a ballasted system, which is something then that sits up on the roof and has a substantial weight to it. But again, it's also something that has a lot of holes where the wires come in and connections. And so again, solar systems just add to the complexity of roofs and put more penetrations. And penetrations really are where water can come in. And so if you don't seal those well, you will have unhappy clients. If you seal them well, you will have happy clients. It's really that simple. And spray foam, by being a self flashing, fully adhered system that's sealed around it, gives you that all these thousands of metal stanchions are all sealed up well and water's not going to come in. What a good piece of mind. You're giving people-

Heida Ellsworth:
It makes sense.

WIll Lorenz:
Yeah.

Heida Ellsworth:
When you think about everything that's going on with solar, and we know there's going to be a huge push on solar, as a contractor, if you can go in there and say, "Look, we have a system that whether you're getting solar now, and we can help you with that, or whether you can get solar down the line, this system will work." And if they aren't putting it in, once the solar's put in, they can come back up with there's service and maintenance contract and make sure everything is working right with the system.

WIll Lorenz:
They can. And if there's just simple damage that happens because of somebody up there taking a look at the electricity and trying to fix things that maybe needs to be done, replace a panel or whatever over the years that it's up there, a spray foam roof is one of those things where they can do a very simple repair. Most repairs are caulk and coating over that area that was a minor damage. You really keep a sustainable roof system there. And then when it gets towards the end of its service life, you don't tear it off. You put another layer of roof coating on top of it and keep it going. So you're not going to the landfills, and this roof is now sustainable and it's performing for you for the next generation. When you decide that your kids need the house in the HOA, you know that they're going to have a water tight place to live.

Heida Ellsworth:
And they're going to get it. Yeah. So I at least hear a lot of roofing contractors who are using roof coatings, but I think spray foam still has some contractors a little scared. Like, "How do I get into it? How do I use it? Am I doing it the right way?" Can you talk a little bit about all the contractors who are listening to this right now who are like, "I want to add spray foam to my business," how do they do it?

WIll Lorenz:
Yeah. Well, I think you first begin with being a roofer. If you don't know what you're doing in the roofing business, any roof system is not going to be an easy solution for you. So if you're good at knowing what you need to replace, what you need to ensure that is performing to code and know how to get up on roofs, then spray foam system's one of those things that dial it. But I'll just say that spray foam is being used all across the country in wall insulation, in residential homes, and it's being used at a great success to sealing up buildings and saving energy there.

WIll Lorenz:
So what was a marketplace dominated by other forms of insulation now has a lot of spray foam being installed. And so people are quite familiar with how to operate the equipment, how to spray it, how to maintain it, how to put it down, and how to care for it. And so it's just taking that same knowledge and what you know as a good roofer and applying it with our help up on a roof. And if you've got a system where it's basically a flat roof, you replace the things that you need to that are broken or worn out, you prime it, and you spray the foam down and you coat it. You do the detail works to leave a nice clean professional workplace, and you'll have happy customers. It's not complicated.

Heida Ellsworth:
That's great. And with all of the material shortages that are going on, I've actually been hearing contractors who had not traditionally done spray foam who have now added it to their offerings and are so happy because they're able to get product, they're doing systems a little bit different. Talk about that.

WIll Lorenz:
Yeah. Again, creative people come up with creative solutions. I think everybody was of the mindset that we put on the traditional roof system and then it wears out and we throw another one on, same thing. Maybe it's better than it was, but it's following the same format all the time. Instead, say, "Look, we've got a roof here. Why do we have to tear it off? What can we do to keep it here?" And spray foam is one of those things where you can look at those roofs, and again, you're recovering, you're not tearing it off. And a recover is just simply adding another layer of a quality roof system on top of an original layer so that you have a performing two roof system.

WIll Lorenz:
Spray foam does that quite easy and simple, inch or two of spray foam is magic. It just really saves energy and it waterproofs things. And with a good coating systems on it, whether it's acrylic, silicone, or urethane, you've got a performing system. And acrylics are great in hot and dry climates, silicones are great in wet and cold climates, and urethanes are just the top of the line. And if you want something that's going to hold up to areas that are going to see more in climate weather, then a urethane roof is really as tough as you can get.

Heida Ellsworth:
Yeah. Wow. Such a great offering. Good, better, best, right? Good, better, best. And we keep talking about all the different things that you can do and the way to put things together. But this especially, for any project out there across the board, commercial, residential, low slope. But I love really our focus and focusing in on HOAs that can bring. What a great niche for our contractors to really be focusing on. Will, thank you. Thank you so much for the gems of wisdom.

WIll Lorenz:
Well, I appreciate again, the opportunity. I'm always humbled to be on with you, Heidi. It's just a great experience. I come back jazzed up about being in this business and glad that I've invested so much time in it and more excited about getting on a roof and helping contractors put on another performing roof system with General Coating's products.

Heida Ellsworth:
I love it. Yeah, I'm pretty inspired myself right now. I love it. For all of you listening out there, you can find all this information plus so much more on the General Coatings directory on Roofer's Coffee Shop. And we have great articles, great videos. When Will and I first met, he was like, "Heidi, I have all these videos." And I'm like, "Great." So you can find all of that on the directory throughout the whole site, plus on our YouTube channel, everywhere you find all this great stuff. So Will, thank you again for being here today.

WIll Lorenz:
Thank you, Heidi. It's always a wonderful experience. Let's do it again.

Heida Ellsworth:
We will. We will be doing it again. And for all of you, again, thank you so much for being here. You can find all of our podcasts under the read, listen, watch section of Roofers Coffee Shop. Or best of all, on your favorite podcast channel. Be sure to subscribe so you don't miss a single notification and a single podcast. Thank you so much for being on this roofing road trip, and we'll see you next time.

Speaker 1:
Make sure to subscribe to our channel and leave a review. Thanks for listening. This has been Roofing Road Trips with Heidi from therooferscofeeshop.com.

By Will Lorenz for General Coatings.

How using SPF can help you meet Title 24 regulations in California

California’s Building Energy Efficiency Standard, Title 24, was updated on January 1, 2010, by the California Energy Commission. While a decade has passed since this decision, these updates still significantly affect Southern California’s commercial buildings. The roofs of these commercial buildings are usually over 25 years old, and thus have maintenance issues.  

According to the Department of Energy (DOE), three-quarters of the roofing installed each year is reroofing on older buildings. Additionally, commercial and industrial buildings in California account for over half of the total electricity use in the state. These statistics provide excellent reasons for installing more environmentally responsible and longer lasting products rather than simply replacing a failed roof with more of the same.  

Energy conservation and energy cost reductions are primary concerns to building owners, architects, building industry professionals and municipal officials. Commercial buildings’ decision makers have many sustainable roofing options from which to choose, whether for new construction, reroofing, or maintenance and repair projects. And, since approximately $40 billion is spent annually in the United States to cool buildings, approximately one-sixth of all energy consumed annually, the type of roofing material and application procedure selected has a direct effect on buildings’ energy efficiency and maintenance requirements. Additionally, to further encourage sustainability, the federal government has passed several different bills that allow commercial property owners to take advantage of tax credits for retrofitting existing buildings with environmentally friendly materials and materials that cut energy costs.  

Rain and low-sloped roofs 

In July 2009, the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) officially announced the arrival of El Niño, a climate phenomenon with a significant influence on global weather, ocean conditions and marine fisheries. Although there are some benefits to El Niño, Southern California gets hit with damaging winter storms. On January 19, 2010, the NOAA reported that “Southern California could see close to 20 inches of rain in some areas.” Rain, especially a driving, soaking storm within a short duration, puts roofs to the test.  

Every roof is an at-risk location for ponding water. Many commercial building roofs have HVAC equipment, vent pipes, skylights and other building elements, which are all “holes.” Additionally, maintenance crews walk on roofs, leaves and sticks are blown across roofs or they may even have a billboard secured to the top; all providing an opportunity for leaks and water damage. Leaks can also be the result of poor roof system installation, mechanical damage such as dropped screwdrivers or knives, plugged roof drains, roofing material failure or HVAC problems. Single ply roof membranes deteriorate as they age and can experience puncture problems. Additionally, single-ply roofs require flashing material (sealant), which frequently hardens and cracks over time resulting in leaks. This weak point near drain or duct penetrations allows ponding water to enter through in the roof, saturate the insulation and cause damage to the roof structure.  

A significant potential failure point is at the seams, which is held together with adhesives. As most roofs age, UV damage and thermal expansion causes them to become more brittle and less resilient. This means that membrane roofs become less resistant to any movement, resulting in accelerated deterioration from common stresses like temperature changes, foot traffic and substrate movement; because the roof cannot flex or stretch as well as it did when new, it cracks or opens at the seams. 

Insulation layers are an integral part of the roof assembly and must function in concert with the roof membrane and the structural deck. For many years the use of polysocyanurate (polyiso) roof insulation has been widespread in the roofing industry. Unfortunately, if this insulation becomes exposed to water from a leak in the membrane it will absorb it and degrade its insulation performance. If the moisture cannot evaporate through the impermeable membrane above then it will accumulate and migrate to the deck. This trapped moisture starts deterioration that can eventually penetrate the deck and damage the interior contents of the building.  

Water is the biggest enemy of any insulation because it transfers heat 24 times faster than air. Third-party testing has verified that moisture-susceptible insulations can lose up to 80 percent of their insulating value when exposed to moist conditions. This means more energy and money is needed to condition the building. 

Moisture in low-sloping roofing is a multibillion-dollar problem. It is estimated that energy losses through roofs in the U.S. increased by 70 percent because of the loss of insulation’s thermal resistance due to moisture. When water gets underneath roofing membranes, it can work its way to the roof deck and cause the roof structure to deteriorate. Extra moisture contributes to mold proliferation elsewhere in a building.  

As commercial building stakeholders, it’s important to understand the requirements of Title 24.  

Title 24: The energy efficiency standards for residential and non-residential buildings  

In 1978 the California Energy Commission established Title 24 in response to a legislative mandate to reduce the state’s energy consumption. The 2005 energy standards consider a cool roof to be the standard in California for new construction or retrofit of low slope roofs on non-residential buildings. 

The bill specifies that new and replacement commercial roofs – virtually any low slope roofing project that requires a construction permit – must have a minimum initial thermal emittance of 75 percent and a minimum solar reflectance of 70 percent, as rated by the Cool Roof Rating Council. For clarification, reflectivity is the percentage of the sun’s heat a roof keeps off a building and emissivity is the percentage of heat a roof lets out of a building.  

The new cool roof requirements affect new construction, significant repairs of existing roofs, reroofing, plus additions and alterations of existing buildings and homes. 

Cool roofs and California 

Roofs serve the vital and obvious function of protecting a building from the elements – precipitation, and heat and cold, for example. The most common type of roof for commercial buildings, in California and throughout the county, is low sloped – a surface with a pitch less than or equal to 2:12.  

Selecting cool roofing materials and systems that reflect the sun's radiant energy, before it penetrates building interiors, will mitigate urban heat island effects. On a sunny summer day, a typical roof surface can reach temperatures that are nearly 100°F above the ambient temperature. A cool roof, by contrast, stays at or near the ambient temperature due to the characteristics of its outer layer and can significantly reduce summer electrical energy use. Even though Southern California residences near the coast may not use much air conditioning, commercial buildings aren’t designed for passive cooling and require continuous air conditioning.  

Studies show cool roofs can typically reduce summer air conditioning energy use by 10 to 20 percent and energy use by 50 percent. A cool roof product must have a surface reflectivity of 70 percent or more and an emissivity of at least 75 percent to qualify for Title 24 energy credits.  

Cool roofs’ characteristics:  

• Reflect sun’s radiant energy before it penetrates into a building’s interior. 

• High solar reflectance and higher thermal emittance than a non-cool roof. 

• Less energy absorbed into roof system and building – saving on annual electricity bills by reducing air conditioning costs. 

• Increase roofs’ life cycle because of reduced building movement. 

• Stay at or near ambient temperatures even on the hottest summer day. 

• Improve insulation performance to reduce winter heat loss and summer heat gain. 

• Potentially reduce HVAC capacity requirements.  

Typically, 80 percent of low-slope roofs are black and can reach temperatures ranging from 150°F to 200°F. White roofs, as mentioned, can average 120°F, significantly cooler than black roofs. And while white surfaces can be applied on black roofs, this often results in a short-term benefit, where effectiveness diminishes quickly. The traditional black asphalt roof is usually low in reflectivity and high in emissivity and over time will heat up and retain the day’s heat. The heat absorption causes the roof to expand during the day. At night when the outside temperature cools off, the roof will contract. Since asphalt and single-ply roofs are not very flexible, expansion and contraction of the roofing materials – as they go through these daily temperature cycles – causes premature failure of the roof system. Additionally, as one would expect, dark colors experience the largest thermal movement, resulting in higher air conditioning/electric bills.  

Spray foam roofing system  

Spray foam roofing has been around for more than 30 years and it’s used mainly to reroof existing low-sloped roofs but is also an excellent option in new construction. Spray Polyurethane Foam (SPF) can be applied to most existing roofs without tear-offs and to all low slopes in new construction. This saves on the expense of roof removal and landfill fees – since 10 percent of landfill content is roofing material – this is an important sustainable benefit to an SPF system. The seamless blanket is easily applied around all troublesome areas: cracks, tight corners, HVAC units, penetrations and the perimeter of the roof – all the areas prone to fail.  

This roof system increases durability, endures foot traffic and resists impact and storm damage. It can bond to just about everything so it can be installed over concrete, wood and steel decks. This light-weight insulation material may be applied in varying thickness depending on various building codes and LEED requirements.  

SPF roofing systems excel when: 

• Desirable to keep existing roof covering. 

• Roof substrate has many penetrations. 

• Cost effective alternative to complete tear-off. 

• Additional insulation is desired. 

• Roof is in a severe weather environment. 

• Lightweight materials are required. 

• Slope must be added to provide positive drainage  

SPF also provides a rapid payback with energy savings. While installing a spray foam roof is not the least expensive option, the return on investment through energy and maintenance savings should offset this higher initial cost with a payback in approximately three to four years.  

Once the spray polyurethane foam is applied, the roof is waterproof. It must, however, be protected by elastomeric coatings to prevent ultraviolet-induced surface degradation. Using a bright white reflective coating meets or exceeds Title 24 Cool Roof requirements and reduces energy costs and heat island air pollution. The SPF roof is also renewable every 10-15 years with an additional application of white coating, so no tear-offs are needed in the future.  

SPF roofs have an effective service life of more than 30 years. In 1996 and 2003, the National Roofing Foundation commissioned Dr. Rene Dupuis of Structural Research Inc., to conduct research on SPF roofing systems in six different climate zones in the United States. The research showed that the physical properties of the foam change very little with age.  

SPF roofing in action  

Gresco Corporation 

Santa Ana, California-based Gresco Corporation is a private commercial, industrial and warehouse real estate company, established in 1966. Currently, the company owns six properties with a total of 430,000 square-feet. Bill Greshner, Gresco president, knows the importance of building upkeep to maintain property values and to comply with California’s strict energy and building standards.  

The buildings in Gresco’s portfolio are showing signs of age, particularly the roofs – the effects of the hot California sun and this past winter’s unusually heavy rain. Greshner researched numerous roofing systems, selected SPF and is optimistic about SPF providing long-term positive results for the 50,000 to 100,000 square-feet that will be repaired annually. And while Gresco’s tenants pay the utility bills, Greshner knows that a cool roof is a prudent business decision, helps control energy consumption and lessens his buildings’ carbon footprint.  

Western Avenue Business Park

Building owner and landlord Ron Burg knows that well-maintained buildings help keep tenants satisfied. The roofs on many of the buildings in his company’s portfolio are in need of repair, having been built in the 1960s. HVAC systems and age have taken their toll on the roofs, causing holes that are an inch or more deep, as well as sagging and low points on the roofs.  

While the roofs on two of Burg’s buildings are only five years old, they already have low spots. As a preventative measure, Burg is repairing those now along with two other buildings’ roofs that are older and are in need of upkeep. Burg knows that having tenants complain about water damage is avoidable by installing a better roofing system. However, he doesn’t have time to spend overseeing and coordinating costly roof replacement projects that can impact his company’s bottom line. In order to keep his business operating at the most productive level possible, selecting the best roofing repair system the first time around minimizes disruption to his employees and tenants – SPF is that solution. 

Learn more about General Coatings in their RoofersCoffeeShop® Directory or visit www.generalcoatings.net.

Original article source: General Coatings

By General Coatings. 

General Coatings offers quick and easy access to expert insights and recommendations to best apply their coating. 

General Coatings features a resources section on their website that features technical tips for application and maintenance. These technical tips come in PDF’s that are around eight pages, and can be found in General Coatings technical library. Here, tech tips are summarized and put into one place for quick and easy access to expert information about installations. Read on for a speedy overview of SPF applications, spray gun advice and more. 

Maintain adequate SPF temperature in the cold 

In cold weather, it is important to maintain adequate SPF material temperature to ensure proper metering and mixing of the A and B components. One way of accomplishing this is by a process of recirculation.  

First, turn the preheaters and hose heat on. Next, use the transfer pumps (do not engage proportioner) to circulate the material through the preheaters and heated hoses, and then back into appropriate drums. This process will raise the liquid material temperature quickly and uniformly. Care should be taken to prevent excess moisture or humidity from entering the system during this process or contamination can occur.  

Flush pots 

Many applicators enjoy using flush pot assemblies to clean their plural component spray guns. The proper techniques must be used to clean the gun thoroughly. Use the following technique to be assured of a clean gun when using a flush pot: 

• Clean one side of your gun at a time. (This requires a flush pot coupling with two manual valves).

• Clean the least viscous (thinnest side) first. This is usually the "A" side.  

• Clean the other side next.  

• Open both valves and flush both sides.  

• Flush at each step until clean solvent comes through the gun in a steady stream.  

Maintain pressure and ratio when applying plural components 

Plural Component spray equipment frequently arrives from the factory with size 80 or 60 mesh pump and gun screens. While this works fine with SPF applications, the screen mesh size may be too small for many plural component coating applications.  

Fillers typically used in coatings can clog small mesh screens, leading to off-pressure and/or off-ratio conditions. If you are experiencing difficulties maintaining equal pressures and/or staying on-ratio when applying plural component coatings, try using a larger mesh screen.  

Form a smooth surface 

In order to apply spray polyurethane foam (SPF) to form a smooth surface profile and produce specified physical properties, a proper application technique must be used. The spray gun should be held as perpendicular to the substrate as possible. Spraying at a severe angle will cause the SPF to roll and exhibit a 'tree-bark' surface profile. This profile may cause the SPF to exhibit poor physical properties and significantly increases the surface area of the SPF to receive protective coatings.  

You should feather your passes at the outside edges. This will leave a taper on the outside edges that will blend in smoothly with the subsequent pass. The application of the SPF should be installed at a consistent rate to allow approximately 80 percent of the spray pattern to overlap the previous lift. This will eliminate any washboard undulation and create a smoother surface profile. The SPF should rise smoothly and uniformly.  

Your tie-in to the adjacent pass will vary depending on your natural pass width. The tie-in pass should carry onto the previous pass by 10 to 20 percent of your pass width. Try using the following technique to control your tie-in detail: Spray a full-length pass (30-40 linear feet). Start your new pass immediately adjacent to the first pass. After approximately 10 linear feet, stop spraying. Get on your hands and knees and observe the pass line. The elevation of the SPF at the pass line should match the middle of the pass. If there is a ridge between the two passes, take a half of a step away from the first pass and continue spraying. If there is a valley, take a half of a step towards the first pass. If there is a 'tree-bark' surface at the pass line, narrow your pass width. With practice, these techniques become automatic. Your foam application will look much better, require less coating and provide better drainage.  

On ratio? 

Many SPF contractors find that their B-side drums do not empty at the same time as their A-side drums and worry that their equipment might be malfunctioning. But before tearing down and rebuilding your pumps, consider the density differences between the A- and B- components. SPF proportioning pumps are designed to process A- and B-components at a ratio of 1:1 by volume, not by weight.  

However, many SPF systems houses package their materials in drums or other containers by equal weight. For example, SPF systems are typically packaged in 55-gallon drum sets: "A" being designated for the isocyanate component (pMDI) and "B" for the resin component. 

If both drums weigh the same, the volume of isocyanate (A) is less than the resin (B) due to the specific gravity differences of the two materials. Simply stated, one pound of isocyanate (A) will be less volume than one pound of resin (B). Therefore, there is more volume of resin in a drum set of equal weight. As the material is processed (1:1 by volume) there will be resin left over. If you find that you chronically have excess resin (B-component), ask your supplier if they ship sets by equal weight or equal volume.  

Thermal barriers 

Building codes require that foam plastic insulation, such as SPF, be covered with a thermal barrier to slow their involvement in fire situations. Thermal barriers are discussed in the International Building Code (IBC) in Section 2603 and in the International Residential Code (IRC) in Section R314. ½-inch thick gypsum board is one commonly used thermal barrier. It and other thermal barriers are designed to "limit the average temperature rise of the unexposed [foam plastic insulation] surface to no more than 250 oF (121 oC) after 15 minutes of fire exposure to the ASTM E 119 standard time temperature curve." [IRC 2003, Section R314.1.2]  

But there are MANY exceptions to the thermal barrier requirement. For example: 

• Building code authorities may approve coverings based on fire tests specific to the SPF application. For example, covering systems that successfully pass large scale tests (such as the small room corner test) may be approved by code authorities in lieu of a thermal barrier.
• SPF protected by a 25 mm (1-inch) thickness of masonry does not need a thermal barrier.
• Certain SPF roof covering systems do not require a thermal barrier between the SPF and the interior.  

Ignition barriers 

Another exception to the thermal barrier requirement is in attics and crawl spaces where entry is made only for the service of utilities. In these cases, SPF must be protected from ignition by covering with 38 mm (1 1/2 inch) mineral fiber insulation, 6.4 mm (1/4 inch) wood structural panels, 9.5 mm (3/8 inch) gypsum board or other code prescribed material.  

These materials which offer protection from ignition are called "ignition barriers" (the building codes do not use the term "ignition barrier"; this term is a common vernacular used by the building trades to describe these and equivalent materials). As with thermal barriers, code authorities may accept alternatives to the above prescribed based on fire tests specific to the SPF application.  

In general 

Materials which are not specifically prescribed by the building codes may be approved by building code authorities for use as a substitute or an exception to the requirement of a thermal barrier or ignition barrier when based on fire tests specific to the SPF application. Just because a material is advertised as a "thermal barrier" or "ignition barrier" does not mean that it has been tested in conjunction with SPF and approved by a code agency or a local code official. 

Ask for test data and code body approvals, listings, or other written indications of acceptability under the code to be sure that the product selected offers the fire protection that the code demands. For more information, refer to SPFA Document AY 126 Thermal Barriers for the Spray Polyurethane Foam Industry and API Document AX 230 Fire Safety Guidelines for Use of Rigid Polyurethane and Polyisocyanurate Foam Insulation in Building Construction.  

Reducing weight with SPF 

Power brooming or roof vacuuming an old Built-Up Roof (BUR) should remove about three pounds of gravel per square foot. This statement is made assuming that a typical application of four pounds of gravel per square foot was initially applied. The application of a spray polyurethane foam roof with a coating system should only weigh about one-third or one-quarter pound per square foot.  

Obviously, the roof weight reduction is significant. It is possible that a deflected roof can demonstrate some memory and recover some of the original shape of the BUR system as a direct result of the dramatic weight reduction. Equally significant is the process where the roof is sprayed with polyurethane foam and sloped 1/4 inch per foot to drains.  

As the weight of water is 5.2 pounds per square foot at a one-inch depth, the elimination of ponding water on a roof can dramatically lengthen the life span of a roof and reduce those costly repairs. Spray polyurethane foam roofing and leaky old downtown buildings are made for each other. There is a tremendous market for SPF in the core of your city. Think about it!  

Coating reversion 

Coating reversion of two-component polyurethane coatings was a problem primarily in roofs that were coated in the early to late 1980s. I have not seen the condition in the last 10 years. Reversion of coatings refers to a condition where the coating originally sets up and exhibits good physical properties initially then over a period of time (usually years), the coating (typically the base coating) becomes soft and gummy.  

Sometimes the coating appears fine in cool to cold weather and only becomes soft during warm and hot weather. This makes it hard to diagnose at times. The causes of reverted coating usually stem from the A side not mixing thoroughly with the B side component and eventually having the A side react with water vapor. Since it is usually the base coating, the top coating may appear fine. Sometimes the top coating may start to lose adhesion with the base coating. If this happens, the recommendation is to scarify the coating and top surface of foam, re-foam and re-coat the roof. If the adhesion is good and the coating is providing adequate UV protection, it is usually best to just leave it alone.  

Using power brooming to your advantage 

Power brooming or roof vacuuming an old Built-Up Roof (BUR) should remove about three pounds of gravel per square foot. This statement is made assuming that a typical application of four pounds of gravel per square foot was initially applied. This application of a spray polyurethane foam roof with a coating system should only weigh about one-third or one-quarter pound per square foot.  

Obviously, the roof weight reduction is significant. It is possible that a deflected roof can demonstrate some memory and recover some of the original shape of the BUR system as a direct result of the dramatic weight reduction. Equally significant is the process where the roof is sprayed with polyurethane foam and sloped to drain ¼ inch per foot to drains.  

As the weight of water is 5.2 pounds per square foot at one-inch depth, the elimination of ponding water on a roof can dramatically lengthen the life span of a roof and reduces those costly roof repairs. Spray polyurethane foam roofing and leaky old downtown buildings are made for each other.  

Scarifying Spray Polyurethane Foam  

Scarifying is the process of cutting or planning off the upper surface of the SPF. While it is acceptable to scarify or scarf the SPF and refoam, a couple of simple rules must be followed or job failure can occur. Scarifying should extend down a minimum of ½ inch to sound, dry dimensionally stable on-ratio SPF. Care should be taken to assure that the coatings in the low areas are removed during scarification and that scarification is extended below suspected problem areas such as UV degradated SPF.  

The area must then be cleaned by broom or blown air. On the same day, the SPF must either be re-foamed or it must be primed with a dark-colored acceptable primer. If the SPF is installed at a later date, blistering of the new SPF may occur. The reason this occurs is moisture from dew formation is very difficult to dry on scarified SPF. Foaming the same day as scarifying the foam eliminates the possibility of dew formation.  

In cases where foaming the same day is not practical, a dark primer will stop UV degradation of the foam and give a dark substrate to hold heat, speeding dew evaporation. An additional benefit of the dark primer is that it aids in the rise of the new foam. 

Learn more about General Coatings in their RoofersCoffeeShop® Directory or visit www.generalcoatings.net.

By Cass Jacoby, RCS Reporter.  

Join Heidi in a riveting conversation with leading executives in the roofing industry about quarter three and what to expect in the future.  

On Season 3, Episode 3 of Coffee Conversations, sponsored by Johns Manville, RoofersCoffeeShop® partner Heidi J. Ellsworth is joined by industry leaders across the industry for an in-depth look at 2021’s third quarter.  

CEOs and executives Adam Oaks of Estimating Edge, Deryl Kratzer from National Roofing Partners, Will Lorenz of General Coatings and Jennifer Ford-Smith of Johns Manville all give the inside perspective on the industry at current and predictions into the future.  

Amid a pandemic with a light at the end of a dark tunnel, the conversation begins with good news, data tells us bids are on the rise and the industry is predicting a strong third quarter.  

Director of Product Management Marketing at Johns Manville Jennifer Ford-Smith says, “We see a very strong Q3 and we are seeing strong growth well into 2022 based on what our contractors are telling us.” 

“It's always surprising to see the bids keep going up with all the economic fluctuations that are happening, but this is normalized data, and this is specific commercial roofing bids,” adds Adam Oaks, CEO of Estimating Edge. 

Vice President at General Coatings and a President of the Roof Coatings Manufacturers Association Will Lorenz adds, “Everything is strong on demand. I think that's the great news for all of us. I think the challenge is that demand continues to outs strip supply.” 

The panel addresses the challenges of the supply shortages and how they expect it will affect the third quarter. Deryl Kratzer with National Roofing Partners highlights how despite the obstacle of supply shortages, the industry remains resilient.  

“Partners are actually collaborating together and being able to come up with solutions is something I've never seen it in years in the industry. So, it's pretty exciting to see competitors even helping each other to make sure that we're able to get the supply that we need.” 

Read, Listen or Watch the entire Coffee Conversations to gain more expert insight about the state of the industry and learn what these leaders predict for 2022.

Editor's note: The following is the transcript of a live Coffee Conversations with Jennifer Ford-Smith, Deryl Kratzer, Will Lorenz and Adam Oaks. You can read the interview below or listen to the podcast here.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Hello, and welcome to Coffee Conversations. My name is Heidi Ellsworth and I'm with RoofersCoffeeShop® and we are so proud to bring our Coffee Conversations to all of you out there. Thank you for being on this morning. We have an amazing panel. We're going to be looking at third quarter, what's been happening, looking forward into 2022, and we've brought some of the best leaders in the industry on Coffee Conversations this morning to share what they're seeing and share some of their wisdom. So I am so excited about this morning. Before we get started, I do want to say a special thank you to Johns Manville. Johns Manville is our sponsor this morning, a leader in the industry. I have to tell you, I'm always so humbled by what Johns Manville's doing out there for their contractors, being a part of it, really helping to navigate so much of what's going on right now.

Heidi Ellsworth:
And so special thanks to them. Of course, you can always find Johns Manville on RoofersCoffeeShop in their directory and with their articles. Some videos are out there from the last IRE, so all kinds of good information to help you get in touch with them. But we are really honored this morning to have Jennifer Ford-Smith on the panel who is also in charge of the sponsorship. So thank you, Jenny, thank you for being here. We're going to have this, everyone introduce themselves. And so Jennifer, I'd love to start with you.

Jennifer Ford-Smith:
Oh, thank you, Heidi. It's great to see everybody's faces out there. Although I only see the panelists, anyway JM, I'm really excited to be a sponsor of this opportunity to have a very candid discussion about what's going on in the marketplace. For many of you that don't JM is over 160 years old and we have three divisions, but we are rooted in roofing. We started there 160 years ago making the very first shingle ever. So while we're not in the shingle business any longer, and we focus on commercial roofing only. Like I said, we're rooted there and we're really excited to be able to come talk about what we see in Q3 as well as what we see into the future of 2022. And I know that's certainly a hot topic on everybody's mind.

Jennifer Ford-Smith:
So just for myself, I am the director of product management marketing, and I also have responsibility for our owner services team, which is a relatively new organization within JM that we've been building over the last year. Prior to that, I did run our sales organization for the U.S., and I've been with JM for about 20 years. It's been a very good organization to work with. And many of our employees, one of my favorite statistics is that we have about 8,000 employees and the last we looked at it 1,500 of them have been with the company for more than 20 years or longer. So that speaks volumes to what a great company is. I'm happy to be a part of it. And like I said, I'm looking forward to our conversation today. Thanks Heidi.

Heidi Ellsworth:
That is great. Thank you, Jennifer. I'm just so happy you're here today and this is going to... Megan Elsworth is in the background, as you all know, and when we were practicing, she was like, "This is going to be the best Coffee Conversations ever." So this is going to be excellent. And to introduce, I would also like to have Deryl Kratzer with National Roofing Partners to introduce yourself, sir.

Deryl Kratzer:
Thanks, Heidi. I'm honored to be here again, especially with such an elite panel that you put together, I feel humbled, but I'm here, a little bit about NRP, we're a roll up of over 200 different partners that provide services throughout all 50 states, including Hawaii and Alaska. And we're focused on our client. We're focused on delivering results and we do it with passion and we do it with humility. So we're excited to be here and look forward to the conversation.

Heidi Ellsworth:
That is great. Thank you so much. It's going to be great. And I would also like to then introduce, Will Lorenz. Can you tell us a little bit about yourself?

Will Lorenz:
Hi Heidi. I'm Will Lorenz, vice president at General Coatings. So we manufacture spray foam and roof coatings. I'm also a president of the RCMA, the Roof Coatings Manufacturers Association representing around 80 supplier and manufacturers of roof coatings, acrylics, [inaudible 00:04:52] silicones, and [inaudible 00:04:55]. And so I wear two hats and proud to represent roof coatings here today, too. General Coatings were in the spray foam business. And we do both roofing and insulation products as well as the roof coatings. And so just glad to be here and be a part of this fun group and talk about the future and see what's going on.

Heidi Ellsworth:
I love it. I love it. Thank you so much for being here today and Adam Oaks with Estimating Edge, please introduce yourself.

Adam Oaks:
Thanks, Heidi. Thanks for including me and the Edge. So I'm Adam Oaks CEO of Estimating Edge. We provide [Indian 00:05:32] software solution for the commercial roofing market. So I didn't know how much Jennifer and I had in common. I come from a sales background, ran sales. Our business is all commercial and also our employees, the average 10 years, about 15 to 20 years, we're a 30 year old company. So it's neat to hear that. But our end solution starts with takeoff and estimating includes job, tracking employee time, tracking and really strong data, data solutions to help people win more work. That's what we do.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Excellent. Excellent. Thank you all for being here today. We've got some great topics in front of us. I want to remind everyone out there that this is a Q and A, questions and answers. We want your participation. So in your control panel, you can send a chat or a question to Megan as we go along. And if you want to come on the show, we'll bring you on. You can be on video if you want, or we can ask the question for you, or you can just be on audio. We don't care. However you want to do it, we want you involved. So please do not forget to ask your questions as we go through all this. So we are going to start with Adam and he has brought if you remember, from our last panel where we looked at what was happening on second quarter, we are now going to looked at what's happened since then. And so Adam, you have pulled some great data for us. Can you talk about this?

Adam Oaks:
Sure. I mean as I spoke about last time, it's always surprising to see the bids keep going up with all the economic fluctuations that are happening, but this is normalized data, and this is specific commercial roofing bids. And you can see 2019 in the yellow, 2020 in the green, and then more recently, 2021 in the red. And there's normal tracking with the summer months and so forth, but bids keep climbing. I guess the only real question for the team here is what's happening to all the biddings right? Where are the starts? Where are the delays? And I think that's what we're going to talk about today is what is happening to us after we bid those jobs.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Looking at this, the fact that you can see how far ahead we are between 2020 and 2021. And that it's just staying so consistent. Is really, has said a lot to me. So maybe we'll start, take this over to Jennifer, really talking about this as you're talking to the contractors. I know you just had some summits, I saw you at all the shows with the contractors. What are you hearing about bids and then also just job completion and getting through all that?

Jennifer Ford-Smith:
Yeah. When I look at the trends month over month for 2021, we really started out pretty slow in January and February. And then we took off in March and that would be expected because if you think back to March 2020, that's really when the economy shut down. So you would those high growth rates across the roofing membranes in polyiso. But to the point, it hasn't stopped. And I think people certainly have been concerned about getting supply. And so what we're really struggling with is what's real out there and what you would say panic buying, right? And we will continue, I think people are going to continue to be concerned about supply and continue to buy as much as they can.

Jennifer Ford-Smith:
And we certainly are working to make as much as we can available. We see a very strong Q3 and we are seeing strong growth well into 2022 based on what our contractors are telling us. So right now it's all about getting the material on the job site so that the work can be done and to continue that trend and growth and really where we're seeing it is there's some rebounding going on in the new construction realm, roofing we can usually normalize things because a lot of us do both reroofing and new construction. But we are still seeing a boom with, especially in building size with the big warehouses and distribution centers, so over the last 10 years if you just look at our historic size of job as a company, it has grown tremendously as the warehouse sector has continued to grow with more online buying and whatnot. So like I said, we see a real strong Q3 and four well into 2022, as long as we can get supply out there.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Right. So Deryl, looking at that from your side of the picture with 200 roofing companies out there and doing things, what are you seeing?

Deryl Kratzer:
Well, it's interesting the activity continues to be very strong. In fact, just to give you one quick example, one of the major big box retailers historically over the past three years is reroofed or recovered probably 100 facilities. Their goal for 2022 is to do 350. So you can see that is really ramped up and hopefully Jennifer, you guys will be able to make stocks that we can [inaudible 00:10:56]. One of the things we're seeing as well too, is a pivoting by our partners looking at different opportunities besides reroofing even making some changes relative to the type of system that's going down with the single price being so hard to come by, we're starting to see reemergence of some of the modified and some of the built ups.

Deryl Kratzer:
We're also seeing a whole big a switch over into a coding aspect of it, or just nothing more than just repairing it. When we did a practice brand, I told you about my 5rs of roofing, the repair, replace, recover, restore or reframe. Well, we're seeing a whole lot of the first three and that's kind of the pivot that I think everyone's made and it's service business is just going through the roof right now.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Yeah. I've been hearing the exact same thing, the service, just how do you keep the roof tight? How do you take care of your customers when you can't always get all the materials on the roof? But Will, what are you seeing because you have I mean, you're looking at both spray foam and codings and all of your coding associations as part of the RCMA.

Will Lorenz:
Yes, everything is strong on demand. I think that's the great news for all of us. I think the chat challenges that demand continues to outs strip supply. So there's no ability for the suppliers to catch up. They're running flat out and if they have any sequencing problems or problems getting enough raw materials, which we've all been facing, we can't meet up with the demand. So it's rolling the end into '22, which is going to continue to present strong opportunities for growth. But it's also going to be a challenge unavailability of materials. So I look at their three factors going on demand is still ahead of supply. And then the second thing, as I would say is our ports and our transportation is still functioning poorly. There's not enough truckers to get things delivered.

Will Lorenz:
There's not enough flow through at the ports. There's not enough storage space for the containers that are coming off the ports. So a lot of what would might catch us up is being bottleneck there. And then the third thing is there's some recent challenges with China and their energy policies over there affecting a lot of the raw materials that come out of China. I think most people don't know that about 50% of the chemicals and plastics, raw material come out of China. And with China having energy crisis, what they've done is they've reduced the energy available for the heavy industries and that's caused them to reduce their rates, which has reduced supply on a lot of the components that all of us use in their roofing business. And so it's going to have challenges that are going to ripple into '22, if not into '23, depending on when the Chinese decide to solve their problem.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Wow. And, globally, well you were talking about this before. Globally, I mean, China, but we have some other areas that we're just seeing some hard time getting the materials that we need.

Will Lorenz:
That is true. I think people have seen that oil prices have surged up again. So again, all of our materials are affected in that oil sequence for the most part. But our ports in the United States have recovered from the COVID, but they're just all backed up. And they're just not the flow through to be able to get it out. And the rail services are full and the trucking, they need million more drivers. And so that's making a challenge about getting materials to contractors or out of distribution centers to locations. And it's just a persistent challenge. And I think the president is now addressing some of the issues with regard to the ports and trying to make Christmas happen. Well he is going to prioritize important things, holiday gifts, medical food, roofing supplies and chemicals are probably going to be lower on the list. So we may not catch up in the next fourth quarter, so.

Heidi Ellsworth:
I think everybody should buy local and let the roofing materials come in. So-

Will Lorenz:
There you go.

Heidi Ellsworth:
There you go. Well, so I'm really curious to follow that track too, on the trucking and the logistics. So Deryl, when you are visiting with your contractors, I've been hearing that there's been some great solutions where the industry is really starting to work together. Contractors are working together to figure out trucking going back and forth and a lot of different things. What are you hearing along that lines?

Deryl Kratzer:
No, I think you're spot on, I think the ability of the partners to actually collaborate together and be able to come up with solutions is probably I've ever seen it in years in the industry. So it's pretty exciting to see competitors even helping each other to make sure that we're able to get the supply that we need. The one thing that we're not even missing right now, and I think is a real concern is labor. Because in essence with this COVID mandate, you're starting to already see what's happening to someone like Southwest Airlines. I know many other companies and in any federal projects, you've got to be vaccinated. And unfortunately it's going to cause a real strain on already short labor force. So we're very concerned about that as well too.

Adam Oaks:
Yeah, I saw that 22,000 were added to the construction industry in September, but when you look at non-residential construction, we're way still way below pre pandemic levels. There's a long way to go.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Yeah. And Adam, yesterday I was visiting with actually the chief economist with Angie and they were talking about how other segments are actually, people are leaving. So they're having a lot of excesses out of other hospitalities, other segments. And that should be opening up people for us to recruit into construction. But I don't know if any of you are seeing that or Adam, if you've heard anything along those lines.

Adam Oaks:
Well, I can only speak for us. We're having people come from all sorts of industries applying for positions with us, but we're a technology company, not a roofing company, obviously supporting this industry. I'd be curious what Deryl's seeing on that.

Deryl Kratzer:
Yeah. One of the things that happened just in our local market right now is you've got Amazon just exploding on Amazon, you're giving people 15 bucks an hour, and it's just, what do you want to do? You want to get up on a roof in Dallas, Texas in the middle of the summer? Or do you want to work inside an air conditioned warehouse? It's pretty easy choice.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Yeah.

Adam Oaks:
It's the biggest bids. We come in our data centers.

Will Lorenz:
One of the bigger macro pictures is there's still about 15 or 18 million people that went out of the job market on a federal level. And that they're not getting back employed. They're choosing not to. And they could be in the roofing trade, they could be of trades that help make the economy role better. But people are choosing to pass on working right now. And that's unfortunate. We need it all across our sectors.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Yeah. Jennifer, what are you seeing with, I mean, you could look at it from both sides with all of your contractors, but also JM has huge manufacturing plants. I mean, you hire what? A lot of people.

Jennifer Ford-Smith:
Yeah. I agree wholeheartedly with Deryl and the other panelists, we're struggling with labor equally from a manufacturing standpoint, but, even in our corporate offices. I think, they're calling this time. The great resignation as Will mentioned, and a lot of folks are leaving because childcare is an example. They can't make enough money to cover that. And so you're opting to stay at home. We're seeing that in manufacturing as well. And what we're doing is looking at all the different policies that we have in place to try to be more flexible where we can be. And I know from a roofing contractor standpoint, that's really hard because you can't put a roof on, unless you're up on the roof.

Jennifer Ford-Smith:
Certainly for some of these more corporate roles, you can work from home and we're looking at all of those policies, but when it comes to running a line you got to be there. But how can we be more flexible with the way our shifts are configured or how can we be more flexible with vacation time? Because I think it does go well beyond just the salary portion of it as well, which is something we certainly are looking at. But we continue to struggle. And certainly with the mandate, we've certainly got feedback in some of our plant locations that being the company size that we are, that we may lose some people if we're obviously well over 100 in person employee company. And so that's a big risk for us as well. So very concerning.

Jennifer Ford-Smith:
I love what the industry's doing though, to come together with things like pro certification and really putting roofing out there as an honorable place to work. And I think NRCA is doing some great things to really try to bring that to the forefront with some of the stuff Reed is doing out there as well.

Deryl Kratzer:
Jennifer, if I could tag right on the top of that, also ABC is very actively involved in that as well too, for those of you who were able to be at the Best of Success. I know Steve Little and Tony Rader, they rolled out the new apprentice training program that been funded. And I think that's going to be the stuff that we're going to really see the need for going forward so that we're able to come up with a labor force that we need. But a lot of people don't need to go to a four university anymore to make the kind of money that they want to make [inaudible 00:21:23].

Jennifer Ford-Smith:
Yeah. And I was interesting, Heidi. I think we all of appreciate this, but I was watching the news this morning and they were talking about the trucking industry and the people applying look a lot different today than maybe they had done historically. And they had said they were getting a lot more young people applying and a lot more women applying to be owner operators. And they really promoted the fact that some of these drivers can make $120,000 a year if they're owner operators. And I think roofing has that same ability and we have great career paths and we have a great opportunity to talk more about that to the young folks that are entering the marketplace today.

Heidi Ellsworth:
And being really proactive with that and getting out there. And I mean, I know in our NRCA, Roofing Alliance, I'm hearing it across the board, and new training that's going on down in Arizona with Henry Staggs, he's working on training. There's a lot of different folks that are working on that. I think you're right. We have to come together and help support each other and then getting that into the pro certification. And that just makes everyone look great. One of the things that we're also seeing and that we're talking about is, and I have a question that's going to go along with this, that just came up. But one of the things that we're hearing is people are being, or people, roofing companies are being creative on switching on product systems, trying to figure out how to put there. So we did have a question that just came up that I thought was really interesting and it's from Steven Holman and he asked, "Is anyone seeing a trend in roof coatings using zinc, free water based acrylic coding technology?" So, well, I'm going to hand that over to you.

Will Lorenz:
Thank you. I think as a whole, first of all, roof coatings are up significantly over 19. It's hard to judge 20 because of COVID. But they're up dramatically and environmentally a zinc free coat is desired. I know that particularly in the West California, Washington, there's legislation and direction to be that get rid of heavy metals and so forth, make your coatings durable, but yet zinc free. And so I see the demand growing. I think that the challenges that right now on the roof coating, people are just trying to get enough roof coating whether it's acrylics or [inaudible 00:23:52] or silicone, and do the jobs. We're certainly seeing as Deryl pointed out where some owners are choosing because of the delays and availability of let's say complete reroof, they're choosing other options to extend the life, use roof coatings, and then get to it when they think it is either going to be more cost effective or able to be done in a swift more uniform manner, whether that's 22 or 23.

Will Lorenz:
So I think that's what we're seeing and acrylics are great part of that solution. And particularly if you have built up roofs, there are a great restoration system over there.

Deryl Kratzer:
Heidi, I also want to give Jennifer a little cover here because it's not just the roofing manufacturers, I mean, fastener, the isocyanurate, the different insulation needed so roofing and some of our partners that actually changing out the ISO for say a likely concrete where they can utilize EPS board to still get the great R value that's required in doing different type of systems that can eliminate fastener. So, I mean, they're getting creative and coming up with whatever they can to make sure that they can satisfy the need of the client because that, and the end of the day is what we all strive to do, focus on our client and provide them what they need.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Right. Jennifer, are you seeing the same thing with your contractors of different accessories or different substrates, or what's trying to work around some of this material shortages?

Jennifer Ford-Smith:
Yeah. I mean, and it's difficult because even in a fully adhered system you need a fastener. And that's becoming the bottleneck. So one of the things that we've seen some big clients who are desperate to get in their buildings and get them operational, most of them are new construction. They have metal decks. So they've been using our self adhered vapor barriers out there just to get a temp roof in to give them, buy them a little bit more time, because most of those systems can be exposed to UV for up to 90 days. So it gives them some ability to get the roof dried in and get their building operational while they wait for some of the bottleneck items, whether it be polyiso or fasteners to show up on the job site.

Jennifer Ford-Smith:
So that's an option that we've seen. FM doesn't let you adhere directly to a metal deck. But as an example, JM has a guaranteed systems that are non FM approved in that manner. So we have plenty of data that we're comfortable, that that works. So we're recommending if people want to get, started on their system, if they really clean the metal deck, they can use urethane adhesives to attach their I their ISO down to the deck and then build the roof from there. So that's an alternative and early on that may not have been the greatest alternative because you things use MDI.

Jennifer Ford-Smith:
But I think we feel like MDI is starting to free up a little bit more than fasteners, so that certainly can be an option. But yeah, because we sell systems and because so complicated as an industry when it comes to code approvals, it's been very challenging to find alternates. And so yes, you do see some folks asking to extend their warranties for a couple of years by coding the roof, if the roof's in good enough shape to do that. So we're trying to pull all, everything out of the hats that we can to try to give options out there and work with our contractors to keep their crews busy and keep them working.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Wow. That's great. Well, we have a question and I'd like to put this towards and it goes long along the same lines here, but I'd like to put this towards Adam. This is from Kyle Chrisman. Thank you so much, Kyle. He says could you comment on how innovation will affect the roofing industry given the current labor crunch? And so Adam, I know you're part of RT3 as are a lot of us, and this is really innovation and what we're doing to help the labor crunch is a huge issue.

Adam Oaks:
Yeah. I think the same thing when I think of technologies around what can we do about labor because this isn't going to end. So automation is what we're thinking here at Estimating Edge. And I was doing some research and we see that people are spending money in technology right now is digital collaboration, safety and wearables and BIM. And when you talk about models, that's going to play a part in automation mode solution. We've got coming soon. So what we're talking about at least on the preconstruction side is automating part of the estimating process, which would allow customers to do more with less people. And it is hard to find new estimators. We get calls every day saying, "Do you know what? An estimator that's looking for jobs" and just like that on the fields, no different.

Adam Oaks:
So we think we can eliminate up to 80% of the time. It might take to take off and estimate a project using some automation that's actually coming very soon. We should be able to announce something in the coming weeks. We're really excited about it. So we think that's the path that we can help. But actually going back to labor for just a second, we've hired five people in the last week. We've been hiring a lot of people lately. 50% of people who we're hiring are veterans and I'll speak, I'm a veteran. So I tell you what, there's a lot of people out there that don't know how to get a job in the private industry. They're retired, they've left after all these wars we've been having and they're out there. So if you look, you'll find some pretty good people at all levels that can help you in your organization. So wanted to throw that out there too.

Heidi Ellsworth:
That's great. That is exactly. Deryl, on both of those, I love that talking about hiring veterans and what Jenny said about more women, it's always a passion of mine get more women into roofing, but also what are you seeing innovation wise, technology wise, with your contractors? I know you're doing a lot with drones and I'd love to share how some of those things, what you're seeing and what's starting to help?

Deryl Kratzer:
Yeah, no, let me just address what you've just said about veterans and years about women. I think there's three of us guys in the office here at our corporate headquarters. So we are surrounded by women and I got to tell you, it makes a major difference in the thought process and the collaboration within this going on. So I think Adam, that's an outstanding idea relative to the veterans and the women in roofing. As far as technology, we pioneered ability through the drone technology, which the drone is nothing more going out and capturing the photos, but we've developed software in conjunction with a partner that we are actually able to cut 80% of the roof assessment out.

Deryl Kratzer:
So in other words, you can fly it, you can get all the dimensions, you can get every penetration on the roof and then, oh, by the way, we can identify the deficiency. So really the only thing needed from boots on a roof is someone to go up and cut a core because no matter what they tell you, that's up there, you always need to confirm that because half the time it's not what they said it was. And so that's one of the things that our partners are really utilizing to help them be able to do more with less if you will.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Yeah, one of the big things that I'm just waiting for, because innovation in the U.S. Americans, when there's a problem innovation's going to come in and it's that private's going to come up. So we'll, as we're looking at this robotics on the roof has to be a trend that we're going to be looking at in 2022. We actually had folks stop by our booth at IRE asking about some of those possibilities that they're working on. What are you hearing along that lines?

Will Lorenz:
Well, I think there's twofold, one, first I hope that we get a little bit more automated drivers so we can get the materials to the roof. So Deryl has the product there. We have all reservations about self-driving vehicles, but on the other hand they're necessary but as far as automation on the roof, I think that's where the current bottleneck really is. As far as innovation. Humans are capable of doing many things and observing many things. But I spray foam, we have robotics that get spray out things, coatings can be applied with machines that have been around for 20, 30 years. But basically we need to look at innovations that's going to replicate a lot of manual labor duties.

Will Lorenz:
And as I observe people on the roof, there's many tasks that people do. So you just can't have a seamer be just a machine because they do so many things in ensuring that it's applied right or sealed properly. And so we're waiting for that robot, if you will, to do, I've seen some videos of people developing ones that could install drywall well, if they can install drywall, this robot can get up on a roof and maybe shingle too. So we hope, but I think we're still five years away or so from a lot of those innovations getting there. The biggest thing is trying to get efficiencies on the employees so that they're trained well, so the defects are low, so they install things right the first time and then get their speed of installation up because we sequence all the things behind it. So they can their task efficiently. So that's the trend I think we're seeing.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Yeah. I keep hearing that too and talk a lot of people talking about the better application, the spray foam well, or codings tools to be able to put that together. And we're also we're seeing it in a lot of the single Pies, in the mod bits, in different machinery that laying that, what are you seeing Jennifer with your contractors? Are they trying to automate the rooftop?

Jennifer Ford-Smith:
I think innovation in our industry just comes and do time. I think it's hard in the roofing industry to say we're going to be an Amazon and be fully automated in two years. But if you just look at the history. If anyone has, and I have swung a mop that weighed 80 pounds with hot asphalt, that's 450 degrees. That's to see where we are. And that's how we evolved into single Pie Systems. And the early single Pie Systems had a lot of tapes and primers, which added labor, then you got into the thermoplastics. And so those are all huge innovations on improving labor. And I would say the latest ones in our industry, which are actually not that brand new are the high density, polyiso boards, because they're so much lighter as a cover board than a gypsum board or most recently the canister adhesives.

Jennifer Ford-Smith:
We've seen tremendous labor improvement on application methods with those types of canisters versus traditional adhesives. So I see innovation every year in our industry. It's just not that big robot that's taking, you still need that human element. But I have a lot of optimism that we have a creative industry and that every year we make a step closer to automating the labor process out there.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Yeah. Well, and I have to say we just John Walker, thank you for your comment. He said, "Absolutely contractors are doing everything they can to find other options." So the more creative, all the manufacturing, distribution, service providers, technology, the more creative it can be. I think the contractors are open to it. They're wanting solutions to come through. One of the things just to kind of change up the topic just a little bit, but I want to talk a tad bit about roofing restoration versus replacement versus Deryl's 5RS.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Because it feels like, and I really want to take it more from the owner's side of it, the building owners, facility management, what are they looking for right now? And what are you seeing as the trends? What is it feedback? I mean, Deryl, I'm going to start with you because you were, when we were talking about customer budgets, how are we doing that right now? So talk about some of the things you're seeing there and if there are any solutions that you're seeing from the contractors.

Deryl Kratzer:
Well, end of the day, the client wants a dry environment. And so whatever we can do to provide them that, that's what they're all in for. We've got customers right now that recognize the shortages, recognize how the material prices is just quite frankly, you don't even know what it's going to be by the time you get it shipped to you. So you can't really plan for it. So we have a lot of major customers that are saying, "Can you buy me two? Can you buy me five? Can you buy me 10 years? By either doing coatings or doing restoration of flashings or reinforcing the penetratio. I mean, think about it. 80% of roof failures is around the perimeter and around penetration. It's not the membrane.

Deryl Kratzer:
So if we can focus on those areas and buy time and get them the two, five or 10 year warranty they're looking for, then that's what we're doing. And I think if you can be able to offer that to a customer, then you're going to have them for life because they're ultimately you have had their best interest in mind. You've got them a dry environment, you've done it in an economical fashion. And then when things turn around, then you've got a customer for life.

Heidi Ellsworth:
I agree. So Will, what are you seeing along that?

Will Lorenz:
Well, I think the same thing that Deryl's seeing, which is, they've got an existing roof up there, it's likely have a fair amount of insulation. If they tear off that roof, they're going to have to move back up to code. And as we've seen code has moved up insulation requirements. So again, it's a double challenge on the availability of those isocyanates, polyiso boards or EPS boards. So if you've got an existing roof system and you can put a recover system on it with, let's say spray foam on top of it, add some insulation, seal up the deck and then put roof coatings on top of it, or if it's just a good roof in pretty good condition, but it's at the end of it's service life restoration systems over membranes are built up or metal waterproof it, weatherproof it, keep it running.

Will Lorenz:
And then it can be done at the end of that service life or whenever the client has the funds to be able to do it. I think there's still concern coming into '22 and '23 that our people going to occupy back buildings again, come back into corporate headquarters and if they don't get there are those entities that own the buildings going to spend the amount of money on maintenance and root roofing and other things to maintain it like they would if they had a paying client in it. Certainly warehousing has gone crazy because I think everybody's taken the toilet paper effect where they're going to stock up on everything and control their own warehousing. So warehousing is taken off, but really where's commercial real estate and those building is going to be and I think that's where codings and spray foam are great alternatives because they can give that person an extension on their roof life without having to worry about whether they're going to have a client and to be able to pay for the upgrades.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Yeah. And Jennifer, I know you work with building owners all over, you have great relationships. What are you hearing from them on? And especially I would think service and maintenance.

Jennifer Ford-Smith:
Yeah, I think for the most part we are working with people to extend the life of their roof if it makes sense, but to Deryl's point, people are looking in on the new construction side, they're looking for just some certainty and it's just a really uncertain time. They want to be watertight. They want to know what their budget's going to be and they want to know when their material's going to arrive. And we've just really amped up the communication and it's just communicate, communicate, communicate. And we've had some of our bigger national accounts that once upon a time it was a very secretive process. And we've asked them to be as open as possible because the more visibility that we have coming from them that it helps us plan together.

Jennifer Ford-Smith:
And so that's all I can reiterate with folks. I may not be able to just give you a solid date and a solid price of something that's going to happen in July of 2022, but the more visibility and the more we can communicate and work as a partner, I think it'll mean success for both of us. So yeah, it's certainly been a really challenging time from that standpoint.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Yeah, really it's about communications. Communications and creativity is really what it's all coming down to across the board. And so I'd like to, and maybe Adam, we can start with you on this. I do want to get you guys all have such great insights about what's happening on the federal level. With regulations and with everything that's going on. And so we're getting a lot of great comments and a lot of great questions and it's going back to, how do we get more people? How do we hire, how do we get them back to work? Workforce is leaving, what do we need to do? So Adam, maybe some thoughts on legislation, what we're seeing happening in D.C. and also regulations.

Adam Oaks:
A couple of things one, I think Will mentioned federal governments getting involved with ports. So moving them to 24 hours is going to be impactful and sometimes that's what it takes. But the other thing that we're seeing right now is gas prices. I think we all know the petroleum effect on our products and as those products go up to $100 a barrel, which seems to be likely that's going to cause another problem in the supply chain. So I think opening up the reserves, finding a way to keep those prices down is going to have a big impact on helping us get through this that we're clearly going through into next year. So those are a couple things that I think would be important.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Yeah. Will you're really involved with roof pack and to NRCA as is Jennifer and Deryl. So I wanted all of you, so Will, what are you seeing?

Will Lorenz:
Well, I think we've got the infrastructure bill kind of hung up in Congress again, it's dysfunctional again there, no matter who's in charge. And so I know there's pieces in there that could benefit the roofing industry sustained demand into '23 and '24, if we are doing federal projects for all of us in roofing. And it's really hopeful that that thing can pass and provide some stability. Again, these are big dollar items. So the effects on the economy long-term are going to be challenged, but we need that infrastructure. There's a lot of things that, again, if the trucks can't get over the roads and the bridges, they're not delivering to the job site, so we need to maintain those things and we need to have a balance there.

Will Lorenz:
So that along with just again, federal oversight on relations that could impact starting with the chemicals and plastics industry that feed into the roofing products, we need smart regulation there. We don't need overregulation. And I think that will help allow us to invest more in the United States. I think there's a reason why China and everything became the source for a lot of our petrochemicals business is because it was cheaper and easier to put it in there, less regulation, lower cost. And so we need to build back in America here. And the government has to be less of an obstacle to that and allow us all these industries, whether they're producing isocyanates to be able to manufacture those back here in the United States so that we can make polyiso and other products.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Wow. Yeah. Deryl.

Deryl Kratzer:
Yeah, I think your comment relative to the NRCA and the roof pack and what [inaudible 00:44:50] doing is huge because one of the things that we also look at is part of bringing our 200 plus tier one contract together and across sections so that they can become the boys of the national market. In that way we can talk to these politicians. And if you think about it, you've got thousands of employees and that's what politicians listen to. So we need to get actively involved. We needed to make a difference. We need to make sure that the issues that we're dealing with are being addressed. And I thought that what the NRCA did with regroups leadership was outstanding. So we just need to make sure that we support that, we continually get involved because the roof pack, I think can really make a difference.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Yeah, they do a great job. Jennifer, you've been very involved with roof pack.

Jennifer Ford-Smith:
Yeah. I would just say we talked about the product side and what's being done from that standpoint, but from a labor standpoint, I would also just say the NRCA, roof pack, pro certification, all of that stuff, you get out of it, what you put into it. So I just encourage this audience and others to get involved and participate in National Roofing Day in D.C. We've been doing that the last couple of years, we get four to 500 people there. It does have an impact and it gives our industry a voice. And there are organizations or universities that are really trying to bring roofing curriculum, like Clemson University into the fold. And so participate. They're looking for educators and you guys are experts out there. And then finally the trade schools are a place we're really trying to tap into and encourage folks to join our industry. And we all have them in our backyard. And so I just, again, encourage anybody out there to get involved because we do get out what we put into it.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Yeah.

Adam Oaks:
We gave some free licenses to Clemson University for training estimating on roofing. So we're happy to do that.

Jennifer Ford-Smith:
Yeah, that's awesome.

Heidi Ellsworth:
I think one of the other big trends that as we're talking about everything today, I like to have my takeaways and what I'm really hearing too we already talked about communication, creativity, but collaboration. Really working together, whether that's through the NRCA or your local associations, or right here, talking about it and working together to try to find solutions. And it was interesting on Amy Braybrook has a question and I just, I love your question. Amy, thank you for pulling that in on her thing is going back to everything we've talked about all the creativity of new products, new different types of systems, technology. And her question was, "Do you see contractors going back to their first choice products that were pre COVID and pre all of this, or is this really making a shift in how the systems, how they're doing labor, everything, do you see an ongoing shift in the market?" Deryl you're nodding, I'll start with you.

Deryl Kratzer:
It's such a great question. People remember who were with them in the hard times. So my immediate answer would be, they're going to remember who supported them during this time and they're going to remain loyal to them. So I think it's a great question. And one that only time will tell if I had that crystal ball and I wouldn't have to work anymore. I can invest in the market, all that kind of stuff. But at the end of the day, I think it's a great question I think that's something that we'll throw out next week at all of our partners as well, too, just to get their feedback on that as well.

Heidi Ellsworth:
That's good, Adam you were going to say something?

Adam Oaks:
Yeah. I mean, Deryl said at an earlier meeting that you'd moved a ton of your work for the service side, a huge percentage if I remember right. Just because of everything that's going on. And we're meeting with a customer national roofer and I mean, they're changing a lot of their business right now, and they're not expecting to go in a different direction after this is over. They see where they want to fit and where they want to continue to be more profitable instead of changing what they're doing. We're working on an R&D project with them now and how we can help.

Heidi Ellsworth:
So really and to Amy's question again, that's just so good. It's really about a lot of roofing companies are finding better solutions that they're incorporating and they are changing their businesses. They're going forward. However they're doing that. And Jennifer, I know we talked about this on at IRE and there's actually a video out there of you and I talking about this, but to Deryl's point, it's really about showing up and really being there and being at where the contractors are and taking the calls and communicating really strong. What are you seeing with that?

Jennifer Ford-Smith:
Yeah, I think there's an appreciation. I think for any manufacturer to get up there and just take those tough questions. While they're tough, I think people appreciate that people are being transparent and sharing and educating and communicating on what's happening and what we're going to see in the future. And so I think as far as people changing, I think this also gave people an opportunity to change, maybe even the application methods or products that they might have once been hesitant to use, but now they're available and the other stuff's not available. And so you might see a shift, subtle shifts.

Jennifer Ford-Smith:
You're still going to use a cover board, but you might use a high density cover board, or RhinoBond system, you may have been hesitant to use that kind of system and maybe it was more available in your market and you were going to shift to that. So I do think people may change because the environment forced them to try new things. And as far as a relationship standpoint, I think going back to my previous communicate, communicate, communicate, that's all that we can do in these times to continue that partnership with our contractors.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Yeah. I really think so. Will, I would love to hear your take on this on the shift. If you see contractors shifting, or and staying.

Will Lorenz:
Yeah, I think they are. I think they're going to continue to look at labor being scarce and more expensive. And so they're going to look at systems or methodologies to install that roof system that can keep them dry, that cost-effective, and it enhances their profitability. So I think that's going to be part of the changes as well as I think there's still going to be an under current of a trend to go to pre manufacturing of things. And in many parts of the globe, people pre-manufactured a lot of housing and roofing and so forth, and they bring it to the job site. So I think the roofing industry has to be aware that that's going to be a trend where they're going to try and control it at a location, and then just bring in, build on job site rather than construct on the job site from scratch. So I think that's going to be a big trend going forward, whether that's five or 10, 20 years out, but it's still going to be there.

Heidi Ellsworth:
We just actually through our T3, we visited Boxabl in, where were we Vegas? I can't even remember. Yeah. Vegas. And it was amazing. And it was exactly what you're talking about Will, of prefabbing a cube is delivered onto your property and it becomes a house or a caseta or whatever and you can build them like Legos. So that's it, that is spot on. And again, innovation, people are coming together. I love how fast these hours go and I hate it at the same time because there's so many questions, but I want to thank Kyle Chrisman. I want to thank Mike Kicks for your questions. Hopefully we got to them and talking about getting back to work and getting the labor force in there.

Heidi Ellsworth:
The last question of the day I'd like for all of our panelists is I would just like you to share, looking into your crystal ball into 2022, what are your top one or two pieces of advice for the roofing contractors? What should they be looking forward, what should they be thinking about going into 2022. And I'm going to start with Adam on the technology front.

Adam Oaks:
I mean, we're all busy. We're also all waiting for material. There's ups and downs going on right now. And construction industry frankly is in last place when it comes to investing in technology. And I'm not saying that just for our business we got out of it, but invest in areas that can help you automate, help you get data faster, get the data you need to make better decisions. That's where the investment has to be as you move or competition will squeeze you out because without the data, without the knowledge, without the robotic, whatever it is in technology, you'll fall behind. And that's the biggest investment you can make.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Yeah, that's it. Jennifer?

Jennifer Ford-Smith:
I would just saying no one would have predicted where we are today, a year ago. And so I think we got into some bad habits as an industry. And I think that my advice for all of us is just to protect yourself and make sure you're having those conversations and honest conversations. Trent Cotney has some great resources on the NRCA on how to protect yourself with times like this that are uncertain. We have no idea if there's going to be another hurricane and if it's going to drive further inflation and material shortages. And so I think we got complacent in certain areas and we weren't protecting ourselves. So I do feel that's maybe going to be one of the things that change and sticks is that people are going to be looking at the contracts they write and the way they look at how they do business with owners quite a bit differently moving into the future.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Yeah, that's really great, Deryl?

Deryl Kratzer:
Yeah. My advice would be stay close to your customer, go to the customer with a clean slate, listen to them, they'll tell you what they need and then design something that will accommodate their needs. Focus on the client.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Yeah, first thing, Will?

Will Lorenz:
I think as we've done, stay close to your suppliers our raw material suppliers have been our lifeline and allowed us to serve our contractors and our distributors. And so that relationship is long-term and important and it'll sustain you. And then the next thing is, I think it's what we're hearing today is still going to be what we're going to see next year. So we're going to be tight. So get used to the challenges and become more efficient and more agile in this difficult supply market, which has really grown because we've got excessive demand and that's all good for all of us, demand is it.

Heidi Ellsworth:
That is so true. And I would also just on that last piece all of these wonderful, Will, Deryl, Adam, Jennifer, they're all available through their companies, through RoofersCoffeeShop, through their directories, through information that is constantly being put out there. And I want to say too, to Jennifer's point Trent Cotney, and we were talking earlier about the search for estimating, Cotney is doing estimating training. There's just so many areas out there, but really going into 2022, the closer you can stay, the more research, the more information. And we try to bring that every single day, not a plug for CoffeeShop, but really that's where you got to be talking to all of these experts, all these great folks. So I want to thank all of you so much for being here today, for your wisdom. We had some great comments on good stuff. Thank you. Thank you for everything you're doing. And I personally want to thank every single one of you for being here today.

Jennifer Ford-Smith:
Thank [inaudible 00:57:25].

Heidi Ellsworth:
Okay. I also want to thank Johns Manville because they are our sponsored today. You heard Jennifer again, this is a great opportunity to be able to get with this amazing manufacturer, be able to find information on the site. And I just appreciate them so much for being a part of RoofersCoffeeShop and really bringing all of this to you today. So again, Jennifer, thank you very much. And we are excited because we just keep the Coffee Conversations coming. And the next one that we are going to be having will be on October 28th right before Halloween. And it is where roofs go to rest. And it's all about recycling of asphalt shingles. And our friends at Owens Corning are bringing this to us. They have a whole initiative, roofs to roads. And we're going to hear all about that. I'm super excited about that.

Heidi Ellsworth:
We're just going to keep all this information coming through and making sure that all of you have it. So don't forget, if you didn't get your questions answered today, we will be reaching out to you to make sure you did get your questions answered. This was recorded. So it's on demand. Feel free to share it with whoever you want out there, because we want to make sure that everybody gets this great information from our panelists and ongoing on trying to stay ahead of what's happening out there with materials and labor. So again, I'm going to say thank you to all of our panelists for being here today and thank you all for being with us and watching Coffee Conversations. And we'll see you in two weeks. Thanks a lot.

Will Lorenz:
Thank you.

Jennifer Ford-Smith:
Thank you.

By Colin Sheehan, RCS Reporter. 

Coating crews overcome unique jobsite challenges as they assemble the NFL’s newest stadium. 

Once construction began for SoFi stadium, which hosts NFL football teams, the Los Angeles Rams and the San Diego Chargers, Cor-Ray Painting was called in to do the coatings portion of the job. Cor-Ray Painting is known for several large projects completed in the Western U.S. Among their extensive job list includes Levi’s Stadium in Santa Clara and the Staples Center in Los Angeles.  

The original plan for the project was to have all 736,000 square feet of roof structure be painted by various shops across the U.S., but this proved too costly for the developers. Instead, they fabricated their structure overseas, which caused the first of many challenges for Cor-Ray crews. 

“We didn’t know who [developed the structure], and now we’re dealing with a paint that was applied in a different country,” said Cor-Ray president, Sergio A. Flores, to Ben Dubose of CoatingsPro Magazine. “So it changed the field scope for us, because there were recoat window issues and things like that.” 

Some segments of the structure required a full reblasting, causing other complex issues which had to be fixed on the job. Sometimes the entire member or module needed a reblasting in order to form a uniform coating across the structure. 

To accomplish this feat, Cor-Ray connected with coatings manufacturer, Sherwin-Williams. They proposed Cor-Ray begin using polysiloxane rather than polyurethane, which has a fairly short recoat window. “It was about simplifying the system and trying to be a little more economical,” said Sergio. 

Cor-Ray began their coatings work at SoFi in June of 2018 with the goal of its completion by the 2020 NFL season. Fortunately, the majority of the work had been completed by the turn of 2020, however there was still work to be done during the COVID-19 pandemic. 

In particular, physical distancing requirements proved most challenging for the coatings crew. Sergio remarked that they often lost about an hour of work time each day due to extra protocols like not being able to have two workers use a man basket at the same time.  

“In order to meet the schedule with decreased productivity, we had to increase our workforce,” said Sergio. “The guys are working the same, but they have to do so many other things. What they produce in eight hours isn’t the same anymore.” 

Read the entire report to learn more about the construction of SoFi Stadium and how Cor-Ray got the job done despite the obstacles.

Learn more about General Coatings in their RoofersCoffeeShop® Directory or visit www.generalcoatings.net.

Editor's note: The following is the transcript of an live interview with Jennifer Ford-Smith, Johns Manville; Deryl Kratzer, NRP; Adam Oaks, Estimating Edge; and Will Lorenz, General Coatings. You can read the interview below or listen to the podcast here.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Hello, and welcome to Coffee Conversations. My name is Heidi Ellsworth and I'm with RoofersCoffeeShop and we are so proud to bring our Coffee Conversations to all of you out there. Thank you for being on this morning. We have an amazing panel. We're going to be looking at third quarter, what's been happening, looking forward into 2022, and we've brought some of the best leaders in the industry on Coffee Conversations this morning to share what they're seeing and share some of their wisdom. So I am so excited about this morning. Before we get started, I do want to say a special thank you to Johns Manville. Johns Manville is our sponsor this morning, a leader in the industry. I have to tell you, I'm always so humbled by what Johns Manville's doing out there for their contractors, being a part of it, really helping to navigate so much of what's going on right now.

Heidi Ellsworth:
And so special thanks to them. Of course, you can always find Johns Manville on RoofersCoffeeShop in their directory and with their articles. Some videos are out there from the last IRE, so all kinds of good information to help you get in touch with them. But we are really honored this morning to have Jennifer Ford-Smith on the panel who is also in charge of the sponsorship. So thank you, Jenny, thank you for being here. We're going to have this, everyone introduce themselves. And so Jennifer, I'd love to start with you.

Jennifer Ford-Smith:
Oh, thank you, Heidi. It's great to see everybody's faces out there. Although I only see the panelists, anyway JM, I'm really excited to be a sponsor of this opportunity to have a very candid discussion about what's going on in the marketplace. For many of you that don't JM is over 160 years old and we have three divisions, but we are rooted in roofing. We started there 160 years ago making the very first shingle ever. So while we're not in the shingle business any longer, and we focus on commercial roofing only. Like I said, we're rooted there and we're really excited to be able to come talk about what we see in Q3 as well as what we see into the future of 2022. And I know that's certainly a hot topic on everybody's mind.

Jennifer Ford-Smith:
So just for myself, I am the director of product management marketing, and I also have responsibility for our owner services team, which is a relatively new organization within JM that we've been building over the last year. Prior to that, I did run our sales organization for the U.S., and I've been with JM for about 20 years. It's been a very good organization to work with. And many of our employees, one of my favorite statistics is that we have about 8,000 employees and the last we looked at it 1,500 of them have been with the company for more than 20 years or longer. So that speaks volumes to what a great company is. I'm happy to be a part of it. And like I said, I'm looking forward to our conversation today. Thanks Heidi.

Heidi Ellsworth:
That is great. Thank you, Jennifer. I'm just so happy you're here today and this is going to... Megan Elsworth is in the background, as you all know, and when we were practicing, she was like, "This is going to be the best Coffee Conversations ever." So this is going to be excellent. And to introduce, I would also like to have Deryl Kratzer with National Roofing Partners to introduce yourself, sir.

Deryl Kratzer:
Thanks, Heidi. I'm honored to be here again, especially with such an elite panel that you put together, I feel humbled, but I'm here, a little bit about NRP, we're a roll up of over 200 different partners that provide services throughout all 50 states, including Hawaii and Alaska. And we're focused on our client. We're focused on delivering results and we do it with passion and we do it with humility. So we're excited to be here and look forward to the conversation.

Heidi Ellsworth:
That is great. Thank you so much. It's going to be great. And I would also like to then introduce, Will Lorenz. Can you tell us a little bit about yourself?

Will Lorenz:
Hi Heidi. I'm Will Lorenz, vice president at General Coatings. So we manufacture spray foam and roof coatings. I'm also a president of the RCMA, the Roof Coatings Manufacturers Association representing around 80 supplier and manufacturers of roof coatings, acrylics, [inaudible 00:04:52] silicones, and [inaudible 00:04:55]. And so I wear two hats and proud to represent roof coatings here today, too. General Coatings were in the spray foam business. And we do both roofing and insulation products as well as the roof coatings. And so just glad to be here and be a part of this fun group and talk about the future and see what's going on.

Heidi Ellsworth:
I love it. I love it. Thank you so much for being here today and Adam Oaks with Estimating Edge, please introduce yourself.

Adam Oaks:
Thanks, Heidi. Thanks for including me and the Edge. So I'm Adam Oaks CEO of Estimating Edge. We provide [Indian 00:05:32] software solution for the commercial roofing market. So I didn't know how much Jennifer and I had in common. I come from a sales background, ran sales. Our business is all commercial and also our employees, the average 10 years, about 15 to 20 years, we're a 30 year old company. So it's neat to hear that. But our end solution starts with takeoff and estimating includes job, tracking employee time, tracking and really strong data, data solutions to help people win more work. That's what we do.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Excellent. Excellent. Thank you all for being here today. We've got some great topics in front of us. I want to remind everyone out there that this is a Q and A, questions and answers. We want your participation. So in your control panel, you can send a chat or a question to Megan as we go along. And if you want to come on the show, we'll bring you on. You can be on video if you want, or we can ask the question for you, or you can just be on audio. We don't care. However you want to do it, we want you involved. So please do not forget to ask your questions as we go through all this. So we are going to start with Adam and he has brought if you remember, from our last panel where we looked at what was happening on second quarter, we are now going to looked at what's happened since then. And so Adam, you have pulled some great data for us. Can you talk about this?

Adam Oaks:
Sure. I mean as I spoke about last time, it's always surprising to see the bids keep going up with all the economic fluctuations that are happening, but this is normalized data, and this is specific commercial roofing bids. And you can see 2019 in the yellow, 2020 in the green, and then more recently, 2021 in the red. And there's normal tracking with the summer months and so forth, but bids keep climbing. I guess the only real question for the team here is what's happening to all the biddings right? Where are the starts? Where are the delays? And I think that's what we're going to talk about today is what is happening to us after we bid those jobs.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Looking at this, the fact that you can see how far ahead we are between 2020 and 2021. And that it's just staying so consistent. Is really, has said a lot to me. So maybe we'll start, take this over to Jennifer, really talking about this as you're talking to the contractors. I know you just had some summits, I saw you at all the shows with the contractors. What are you hearing about bids and then also just job completion and getting through all that?

Jennifer Ford-Smith:
Yeah. When I look at the trends month over month for 2021, we really started out pretty slow in January and February. And then we took off in March and that would be expected because if you think back to March 2020, that's really when the economy shut down. So you would those high growth rates across the roofing membranes in polyiso. But to the point, it hasn't stopped. And I think people certainly have been concerned about getting supply. And so what we're really struggling with is what's real out there and what you would say panic buying, right? And we will continue, I think people are going to continue to be concerned about supply and continue to buy as much as they can.

Jennifer Ford-Smith:
And we certainly are working to make as much as we can available. We see a very strong Q3 and we are seeing strong growth well into 2022 based on what our contractors are telling us. So right now it's all about getting the material on the job site so that the work can be done and to continue that trend and growth and really where we're seeing it is there's some rebounding going on in the new construction realm, roofing we can usually normalize things because a lot of us do both reroofing and new construction. But we are still seeing a boom with, especially in building size with the big warehouses and distribution centers, so over the last 10 years if you just look at our historic size of job as a company, it has grown tremendously as the warehouse sector has continued to grow with more online buying and whatnot. So like I said, we see a real strong Q3 and four well into 2022, as long as we can get supply out there.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Right. So Deryl, looking at that from your side of the picture with 200 roofing companies out there and doing things, what are you seeing?

Deryl Kratzer:
Well, it's interesting the activity continues to be very strong. In fact, just to give you one quick example, one of the major big box retailers historically over the past three years is reroofed or recovered probably 100 facilities. Their goal for 2022 is to do 350. So you can see that is really ramped up and hopefully Jennifer, you guys will be able to make stocks that we can [inaudible 00:10:56]. One of the things we're seeing as well too, is a pivoting by our partners looking at different opportunities besides reroofing even making some changes relative to the type of system that's going down with the single price being so hard to come by, we're starting to see reemergence of some of the modified and some of the built ups.

Deryl Kratzer:
We're also seeing a whole big a switch over into a coding aspect of it, or just nothing more than just repairing it. When we did a practice brand, I told you about my 5rs of roofing, the repair, replace, recover, restore or reframe. Well, we're seeing a whole lot of the first three and that's kind of the pivot that I think everyone's made and it's service business is just going through the roof right now.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Yeah. I've been hearing the exact same thing, the service, just how do you keep the roof tight? How do you take care of your customers when you can't always get all the materials on the roof? But Will, what are you seeing because you have I mean, you're looking at both spray foam and codings and all of your coding associations as part of the RCMA.

Will Lorenz:
Yes, everything is strong on demand. I think that's the great news for all of us. I think the chat challenges that demand continues to outs strip supply. So there's no ability for the suppliers to catch up. They're running flat out and if they have any sequencing problems or problems getting enough raw materials, which we've all been facing, we can't meet up with the demand. So it's rolling the end into '22, which is going to continue to present strong opportunities for growth. But it's also going to be a challenge unavailability of materials. So I look at their three factors going on demand is still ahead of supply. And then the second thing, as I would say is our ports and our transportation is still functioning poorly. There's not enough truckers to get things delivered.

Will Lorenz:
There's not enough flow through at the ports. There's not enough storage space for the containers that are coming off the ports. So a lot of what would might catch us up is being bottleneck there. And then the third thing is there's some recent challenges with China and their energy policies over there affecting a lot of the raw materials that come out of China. I think most people don't know that about 50% of the chemicals and plastics, raw material come out of China. And with China having energy crisis, what they've done is they've reduced the energy available for the heavy industries and that's caused them to reduce their rates, which has reduced supply on a lot of the components that all of us use in their roofing business. And so it's going to have challenges that are going to ripple into '22, if not into '23, depending on when the Chinese decide to solve their problem.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Wow. And, globally, well you were talking about this before. Globally, I mean, China, but we have some other areas that we're just seeing some hard time getting the materials that we need.

Will Lorenz:
That is true. I think people have seen that oil prices have surged up again. So again, all of our materials are affected in that oil sequence for the most part. But our ports in the United States have recovered from the COVID, but they're just all backed up. And they're just not the flow through to be able to get it out. And the rail services are full and the trucking, they need million more drivers. And so that's making a challenge about getting materials to contractors or out of distribution centers to locations. And it's just a persistent challenge. And I think the president is now addressing some of the issues with regard to the ports and trying to make Christmas happen. Well he is going to prioritize important things, holiday gifts, medical food, roofing supplies and chemicals are probably going to be lower on the list. So we may not catch up in the next fourth quarter, so.

Heidi Ellsworth:
I think everybody should buy local and let the roofing materials come in. So-

Will Lorenz:
There you go.

Heidi Ellsworth:
There you go. Well, so I'm really curious to follow that track too, on the trucking and the logistics. So Deryl, when you are visiting with your contractors, I've been hearing that there's been some great solutions where the industry is really starting to work together. Contractors are working together to figure out trucking going back and forth and a lot of different things. What are you hearing along that lines?

Deryl Kratzer:
No, I think you're spot on, I think the ability of the partners to actually collaborate together and be able to come up with solutions is probably I've ever seen it in years in the industry. So it's pretty exciting to see competitors even helping each other to make sure that we're able to get the supply that we need. The one thing that we're not even missing right now, and I think is a real concern is labor. Because in essence with this COVID mandate, you're starting to already see what's happening to someone like Southwest Airlines. I know many other companies and in any federal projects, you've got to be vaccinated. And unfortunately it's going to cause a real strain on already short labor force. So we're very concerned about that as well too.

Adam Oaks:
Yeah, I saw that 22,000 were added to the construction industry in September, but when you look at non-residential construction, we're way still way below pre pandemic levels. There's a long way to go.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Yeah. And Adam, yesterday I was visiting with actually the chief economist with Angie and they were talking about how other segments are actually, people are leaving. So they're having a lot of excesses out of other hospitalities, other segments. And that should be opening up people for us to recruit into construction. But I don't know if any of you are seeing that or Adam, if you've heard anything along those lines.

Adam Oaks:
Well, I can only speak for us. We're having people come from all sorts of industries applying for positions with us, but we're a technology company, not a roofing company, obviously supporting this industry. I'd be curious what Deryl's seeing on that.

Deryl Kratzer:
Yeah. One of the things that happened just in our local market right now is you've got Amazon just exploding on Amazon, you're giving people 15 bucks an hour, and it's just, what do you want to do? You want to get up on a roof in Dallas, Texas in the middle of the summer? Or do you want to work inside an air conditioned warehouse? It's pretty easy choice.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Yeah.

Adam Oaks:
It's the biggest bids. We come in our data centers.

Will Lorenz:
One of the bigger macro pictures is there's still about 15 or 18 million people that went out of the job market on a federal level. And that they're not getting back employed. They're choosing not to. And they could be in the roofing trade, they could be of trades that help make the economy role better. But people are choosing to pass on working right now. And that's unfortunate. We need it all across our sectors.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Yeah. Jennifer, what are you seeing with, I mean, you could look at it from both sides with all of your contractors, but also JM has huge manufacturing plants. I mean, you hire what? A lot of people.

Jennifer Ford-Smith:
Yeah. I agree wholeheartedly with Deryl and the other panelists, we're struggling with labor equally from a manufacturing standpoint, but, even in our corporate offices. I think, they're calling this time. The great resignation as Will mentioned, and a lot of folks are leaving because childcare is an example. They can't make enough money to cover that. And so you're opting to stay at home. We're seeing that in manufacturing as well. And what we're doing is looking at all the different policies that we have in place to try to be more flexible where we can be. And I know from a roofing contractor standpoint, that's really hard because you can't put a roof on, unless you're up on the roof.

Jennifer Ford-Smith:
Certainly for some of these more corporate roles, you can work from home and we're looking at all of those policies, but when it comes to running a line you got to be there. But how can we be more flexible with the way our shifts are configured or how can we be more flexible with vacation time? Because I think it does go well beyond just the salary portion of it as well, which is something we certainly are looking at. But we continue to struggle. And certainly with the mandate, we've certainly got feedback in some of our plant locations that being the company size that we are, that we may lose some people if we're obviously well over 100 in person employee company. And so that's a big risk for us as well. So very concerning.

Jennifer Ford-Smith:
I love what the industry's doing though, to come together with things like pro certification and really putting roofing out there as an honorable place to work. And I think NRCA is doing some great things to really try to bring that to the forefront with some of the stuff Reed is doing out there as well.

Deryl Kratzer:
Jennifer, if I could tag right on the top of that, also ABC is very actively involved in that as well too, for those of you who were able to be at the Best of Success. I know Steve Little and Tony Rader, they rolled out the new apprentice training program that been funded. And I think that's going to be the stuff that we're going to really see the need for going forward so that we're able to come up with a labor force that we need. But a lot of people don't need to go to a four university anymore to make the kind of money that they want to make [inaudible 00:21:23].

Jennifer Ford-Smith:
Yeah. And I was interesting, Heidi. I think we all of appreciate this, but I was watching the news this morning and they were talking about the trucking industry and the people applying look a lot different today than maybe they had done historically. And they had said they were getting a lot more young people applying and a lot more women applying to be owner operators. And they really promoted the fact that some of these drivers can make $120,000 a year if they're owner operators. And I think roofing has that same ability and we have great career paths and we have a great opportunity to talk more about that to the young folks that are entering the marketplace today.

Heidi Ellsworth:
And being really proactive with that and getting out there. And I mean, I know in our NRCA, Roofing Alliance, I'm hearing it across the board, and new training that's going on down in Arizona with Henry Staggs, he's working on training. There's a lot of different folks that are working on that. I think you're right. We have to come together and help support each other and then getting that into the pro certification. And that just makes everyone look great. One of the things that we're also seeing and that we're talking about is, and I have a question that's going to go along with this, that just came up. But one of the things that we're hearing is people are being, or people, roofing companies are being creative on switching on product systems, trying to figure out how to put there. So we did have a question that just came up that I thought was really interesting and it's from Steven Holman and he asked, "Is anyone seeing a trend in roof coatings using zinc, free water based acrylic coding technology?" So, well, I'm going to hand that over to you.

Will Lorenz:
Thank you. I think as a whole, first of all, roof coatings are up significantly over 19. It's hard to judge 20 because of COVID. But they're up dramatically and environmentally a zinc free coat is desired. I know that particularly in the West California, Washington, there's legislation and direction to be that get rid of heavy metals and so forth, make your coatings durable, but yet zinc free. And so I see the demand growing. I think that the challenges that right now on the roof coating, people are just trying to get enough roof coating whether it's acrylics or [inaudible 00:23:52] or silicone, and do the jobs. We're certainly seeing as Deryl pointed out where some owners are choosing because of the delays and availability of let's say complete reroof, they're choosing other options to extend the life, use roof coatings, and then get to it when they think it is either going to be more cost effective or able to be done in a swift more uniform manner, whether that's 22 or 23.

Will Lorenz:
So I think that's what we're seeing and acrylics are great part of that solution. And particularly if you have built up roofs, there are a great restoration system over there.

Deryl Kratzer:
Heidi, I also want to give Jennifer a little cover here because it's not just the roofing manufacturers, I mean, fastener, the isocyanurate, the different insulation needed so roofing and some of our partners that actually changing out the ISO for say a likely concrete where they can utilize EPS board to still get the great R value that's required in doing different type of systems that can eliminate fastener. So, I mean, they're getting creative and coming up with whatever they can to make sure that they can satisfy the need of the client because that, and the end of the day is what we all strive to do, focus on our client and provide them what they need.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Right. Jennifer, are you seeing the same thing with your contractors of different accessories or different substrates, or what's trying to work around some of this material shortages?

Jennifer Ford-Smith:
Yeah. I mean, and it's difficult because even in a fully adhered system you need a fastener. And that's becoming the bottleneck. So one of the things that we've seen some big clients who are desperate to get in their buildings and get them operational, most of them are new construction. They have metal decks. So they've been using our self adhered vapor barriers out there just to get a temp roof in to give them, buy them a little bit more time, because most of those systems can be exposed to UV for up to 90 days. So it gives them some ability to get the roof dried in and get their building operational while they wait for some of the bottleneck items, whether it be polyiso or fasteners to show up on the job site.

Jennifer Ford-Smith:
So that's an option that we've seen. FM doesn't let you adhere directly to a metal deck. But as an example, JM has a guaranteed systems that are non FM approved in that manner. So we have plenty of data that we're comfortable, that that works. So we're recommending if people want to get, started on their system, if they really clean the metal deck, they can use urethane adhesives to attach their I their ISO down to the deck and then build the roof from there. So that's an alternative and early on that may not have been the greatest alternative because you things use MDI.

Jennifer Ford-Smith:
But I think we feel like MDI is starting to free up a little bit more than fasteners, so that certainly can be an option. But yeah, because we sell systems and because so complicated as an industry when it comes to code approvals, it's been very challenging to find alternates. And so yes, you do see some folks asking to extend their warranties for a couple of years by coding the roof, if the roof's in good enough shape to do that. So we're trying to pull all, everything out of the hats that we can to try to give options out there and work with our contractors to keep their crews busy and keep them working.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Wow. That's great. Well, we have a question and I'd like to put this towards and it goes long along the same lines here, but I'd like to put this towards Adam. This is from Kyle Chrisman. Thank you so much, Kyle. He says could you comment on how innovation will affect the roofing industry given the current labor crunch? And so Adam, I know you're part of RT3 as are a lot of us, and this is really innovation and what we're doing to help the labor crunch is a huge issue.

Adam Oaks:
Yeah. I think the same thing when I think of technologies around what can we do about labor because this isn't going to end. So automation is what we're thinking here at Estimating Edge. And I was doing some research and we see that people are spending money in technology right now is digital collaboration, safety and wearables and BIM. And when you talk about models, that's going to play a part in automation mode solution. We've got coming soon. So what we're talking about at least on the preconstruction side is automating part of the estimating process, which would allow customers to do more with less people. And it is hard to find new estimators. We get calls every day saying, "Do you know what? An estimator that's looking for jobs" and just like that on the fields, no different.

Adam Oaks:
So we think we can eliminate up to 80% of the time. It might take to take off and estimate a project using some automation that's actually coming very soon. We should be able to announce something in the coming weeks. We're really excited about it. So we think that's the path that we can help. But actually going back to labor for just a second, we've hired five people in the last week. We've been hiring a lot of people lately. 50% of people who we're hiring are veterans and I'll speak, I'm a veteran. So I tell you what, there's a lot of people out there that don't know how to get a job in the private industry. They're retired, they've left after all these wars we've been having and they're out there. So if you look, you'll find some pretty good people at all levels that can help you in your organization. So wanted to throw that out there too.

Heidi Ellsworth:
That's great. That is exactly. Deryl, on both of those, I love that talking about hiring veterans and what Jenny said about more women, it's always a passion of mine get more women into roofing, but also what are you seeing innovation wise, technology wise, with your contractors? I know you're doing a lot with drones and I'd love to share how some of those things, what you're seeing and what's starting to help?

Deryl Kratzer:
Yeah, no, let me just address what you've just said about veterans and years about women. I think there's three of us guys in the office here at our corporate headquarters. So we are surrounded by women and I got to tell you, it makes a major difference in the thought process and the collaboration within this going on. So I think Adam, that's an outstanding idea relative to the veterans and the women in roofing. As far as technology, we pioneered ability through the drone technology, which the drone is nothing more going out and capturing the photos, but we've developed software in conjunction with a partner that we are actually able to cut 80% of the roof assessment out.

Deryl Kratzer:
So in other words, you can fly it, you can get all the dimensions, you can get every penetration on the roof and then, oh, by the way, we can identify the deficiency. So really the only thing needed from boots on a roof is someone to go up and cut a core because no matter what they tell you, that's up there, you always need to confirm that because half the time it's not what they said it was. And so that's one of the things that our partners are really utilizing to help them be able to do more with less if you will.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Yeah, one of the big things that I'm just waiting for, because innovation in the U.S. Americans, when there's a problem innovation's going to come in and it's that private's going to come up. So we'll, as we're looking at this robotics on the roof has to be a trend that we're going to be looking at in 2022. We actually had folks stop by our booth at IRE asking about some of those possibilities that they're working on. What are you hearing along that lines?

Will Lorenz:
Well, I think there's twofold, one, first I hope that we get a little bit more automated drivers so we can get the materials to the roof. So Deryl has the product there. We have all reservations about self-driving vehicles, but on the other hand they're necessary but as far as automation on the roof, I think that's where the current bottleneck really is. As far as innovation. Humans are capable of doing many things and observing many things. But I spray foam, we have robotics that get spray out things, coatings can be applied with machines that have been around for 20, 30 years. But basically we need to look at innovations that's going to replicate a lot of manual labor duties.

Will Lorenz:
And as I observe people on the roof, there's many tasks that people do. So you just can't have a seamer be just a machine because they do so many things in ensuring that it's applied right or sealed properly. And so we're waiting for that robot, if you will, to do, I've seen some videos of people developing ones that could install drywall well, if they can install drywall, this robot can get up on a roof and maybe shingle too. So we hope, but I think we're still five years away or so from a lot of those innovations getting there. The biggest thing is trying to get efficiencies on the employees so that they're trained well, so the defects are low, so they install things right the first time and then get their speed of installation up because we sequence all the things behind it. So they can their task efficiently. So that's the trend I think we're seeing.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Yeah. I keep hearing that too and talk a lot of people talking about the better application, the spray foam well, or codings tools to be able to put that together. And we're also we're seeing it in a lot of the single Pies, in the mod bits, in different machinery that laying that, what are you seeing Jennifer with your contractors? Are they trying to automate the rooftop?

Jennifer Ford-Smith:
I think innovation in our industry just comes and do time. I think it's hard in the roofing industry to say we're going to be an Amazon and be fully automated in two years. But if you just look at the history. If anyone has, and I have swung a mop that weighed 80 pounds with hot asphalt, that's 450 degrees. That's to see where we are. And that's how we evolved into single Pie Systems. And the early single Pie Systems had a lot of tapes and primers, which added labor, then you got into the thermoplastics. And so those are all huge innovations on improving labor. And I would say the latest ones in our industry, which are actually not that brand new are the high density, polyiso boards, because they're so much lighter as a cover board than a gypsum board or most recently the canister adhesives.

Jennifer Ford-Smith:
We've seen tremendous labor improvement on application methods with those types of canisters versus traditional adhesives. So I see innovation every year in our industry. It's just not that big robot that's taking, you still need that human element. But I have a lot of optimism that we have a creative industry and that every year we make a step closer to automating the labor process out there.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Yeah. Well, and I have to say we just John Walker, thank you for your comment. He said, "Absolutely contractors are doing everything they can to find other options." So the more creative, all the manufacturing, distribution, service providers, technology, the more creative it can be. I think the contractors are open to it. They're wanting solutions to come through. One of the things just to kind of change up the topic just a little bit, but I want to talk a tad bit about roofing restoration versus replacement versus Deryl's 5RS.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Because it feels like, and I really want to take it more from the owner's side of it, the building owners, facility management, what are they looking for right now? And what are you seeing as the trends? What is it feedback? I mean, Deryl, I'm going to start with you because you were, when we were talking about customer budgets, how are we doing that right now? So talk about some of the things you're seeing there and if there are any solutions that you're seeing from the contractors.

Deryl Kratzer:
Well, end of the day, the client wants a dry environment. And so whatever we can do to provide them that, that's what they're all in for. We've got customers right now that recognize the shortages, recognize how the material prices is just quite frankly, you don't even know what it's going to be by the time you get it shipped to you. So you can't really plan for it. So we have a lot of major customers that are saying, "Can you buy me two? Can you buy me five? Can you buy me 10 years? By either doing coatings or doing restoration of flashings or reinforcing the penetratio. I mean, think about it. 80% of roof failures is around the perimeter and around penetration. It's not the membrane.

Deryl Kratzer:
So if we can focus on those areas and buy time and get them the two, five or 10 year warranty they're looking for, then that's what we're doing. And I think if you can be able to offer that to a customer, then you're going to have them for life because they're ultimately you have had their best interest in mind. You've got them a dry environment, you've done it in an economical fashion. And then when things turn around, then you've got a customer for life.

Heidi Ellsworth:
I agree. So Will, what are you seeing along that?

Will Lorenz:
Well, I think the same thing that Deryl's seeing, which is, they've got an existing roof up there, it's likely have a fair amount of insulation. If they tear off that roof, they're going to have to move back up to code. And as we've seen code has moved up insulation requirements. So again, it's a double challenge on the availability of those isocyanates, polyiso boards or EPS boards. So if you've got an existing roof system and you can put a recover system on it with, let's say spray foam on top of it, add some insulation, seal up the deck and then put roof coatings on top of it, or if it's just a good roof in pretty good condition, but it's at the end of it's service life restoration systems over membranes are built up or metal waterproof it, weatherproof it, keep it running.

Will Lorenz:
And then it can be done at the end of that service life or whenever the client has the funds to be able to do it. I think there's still concern coming into '22 and '23 that our people going to occupy back buildings again, come back into corporate headquarters and if they don't get there are those entities that own the buildings going to spend the amount of money on maintenance and root roofing and other things to maintain it like they would if they had a paying client in it. Certainly warehousing has gone crazy because I think everybody's taken the toilet paper effect where they're going to stock up on everything and control their own warehousing. So warehousing is taken off, but really where's commercial real estate and those building is going to be and I think that's where codings and spray foam are great alternatives because they can give that person an extension on their roof life without having to worry about whether they're going to have a client and to be able to pay for the upgrades.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Yeah. And Jennifer, I know you work with building owners all over, you have great relationships. What are you hearing from them on? And especially I would think service and maintenance.

Jennifer Ford-Smith:
Yeah, I think for the most part we are working with people to extend the life of their roof if it makes sense, but to Deryl's point, people are looking in on the new construction side, they're looking for just some certainty and it's just a really uncertain time. They want to be watertight. They want to know what their budget's going to be and they want to know when their material's going to arrive. And we've just really amped up the communication and it's just communicate, communicate, communicate. And we've had some of our bigger national accounts that once upon a time it was a very secretive process. And we've asked them to be as open as possible because the more visibility that we have coming from them that it helps us plan together.

Jennifer Ford-Smith:
And so that's all I can reiterate with folks. I may not be able to just give you a solid date and a solid price of something that's going to happen in July of 2022, but the more visibility and the more we can communicate and work as a partner, I think it'll mean success for both of us. So yeah, it's certainly been a really challenging time from that standpoint.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Yeah, really it's about communications. Communications and creativity is really what it's all coming down to across the board. And so I'd like to, and maybe Adam, we can start with you on this. I do want to get you guys all have such great insights about what's happening on the federal level. With regulations and with everything that's going on. And so we're getting a lot of great comments and a lot of great questions and it's going back to, how do we get more people? How do we hire, how do we get them back to work? Workforce is leaving, what do we need to do? So Adam, maybe some thoughts on legislation, what we're seeing happening in D.C. and also regulations.

Adam Oaks:
A couple of things one, I think Will mentioned federal governments getting involved with ports. So moving them to 24 hours is going to be impactful and sometimes that's what it takes. But the other thing that we're seeing right now is gas prices. I think we all know the petroleum effect on our products and as those products go up to $100 a barrel, which seems to be likely that's going to cause another problem in the supply chain. So I think opening up the reserves, finding a way to keep those prices down is going to have a big impact on helping us get through this that we're clearly going through into next year. So those are a couple things that I think would be important.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Yeah. Will you're really involved with roof pack and to NRCA as is Jennifer and Deryl. So I wanted all of you, so Will, what are you seeing?

Will Lorenz:
Well, I think we've got the infrastructure bill kind of hung up in Congress again, it's dysfunctional again there, no matter who's in charge. And so I know there's pieces in there that could benefit the roofing industry sustained demand into '23 and '24, if we are doing federal projects for all of us in roofing. And it's really hopeful that that thing can pass and provide some stability. Again, these are big dollar items. So the effects on the economy long-term are going to be challenged, but we need that infrastructure. There's a lot of things that, again, if the trucks can't get over the roads and the bridges, they're not delivering to the job site, so we need to maintain those things and we need to have a balance there.

Will Lorenz:
So that along with just again, federal oversight on relations that could impact starting with the chemicals and plastics industry that feed into the roofing products, we need smart regulation there. We don't need overregulation. And I think that will help allow us to invest more in the United States. I think there's a reason why China and everything became the source for a lot of our petrochemicals business is because it was cheaper and easier to put it in there, less regulation, lower cost. And so we need to build back in America here. And the government has to be less of an obstacle to that and allow us all these industries, whether they're producing isocyanates to be able to manufacture those back here in the United States so that we can make polyiso and other products.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Wow. Yeah. Deryl.

Deryl Kratzer:
Yeah, I think your comment relative to the NRCA and the roof pack and what [inaudible 00:44:50] doing is huge because one of the things that we also look at is part of bringing our 200 plus tier one contract together and across sections so that they can become the boys of the national market. In that way we can talk to these politicians. And if you think about it, you've got thousands of employees and that's what politicians listen to. So we need to get actively involved. We needed to make a difference. We need to make sure that the issues that we're dealing with are being addressed. And I thought that what the NRCA did with regroups leadership was outstanding. So we just need to make sure that we support that, we continually get involved because the roof pack, I think can really make a difference.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Yeah, they do a great job. Jennifer, you've been very involved with roof pack.

Jennifer Ford-Smith:
Yeah. I would just say we talked about the product side and what's being done from that standpoint, but from a labor standpoint, I would also just say the NRCA, roof pack, pro certification, all of that stuff, you get out of it, what you put into it. So I just encourage this audience and others to get involved and participate in National Roofing Day in D.C. We've been doing that the last couple of years, we get four to 500 people there. It does have an impact and it gives our industry a voice. And there are organizations or universities that are really trying to bring roofing curriculum, like Clemson University into the fold. And so participate. They're looking for educators and you guys are experts out there. And then finally the trade schools are a place we're really trying to tap into and encourage folks to join our industry. And we all have them in our backyard. And so I just, again, encourage anybody out there to get involved because we do get out what we put into it.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Yeah.

Adam Oaks:
We gave some free licenses to Clemson University for training estimating on roofing. So we're happy to do that.

Jennifer Ford-Smith:
Yeah, that's awesome.

Heidi Ellsworth:
I think one of the other big trends that as we're talking about everything today, I like to have my takeaways and what I'm really hearing too we already talked about communication, creativity, but collaboration. Really working together, whether that's through the NRCA or your local associations, or right here, talking about it and working together to try to find solutions. And it was interesting on Amy Braybrook has a question and I just, I love your question. Amy, thank you for pulling that in on her thing is going back to everything we've talked about all the creativity of new products, new different types of systems, technology. And her question was, "Do you see contractors going back to their first choice products that were pre COVID and pre all of this, or is this really making a shift in how the systems, how they're doing labor, everything, do you see an ongoing shift in the market?" Deryl you're nodding, I'll start with you.

Deryl Kratzer:
It's such a great question. People remember who were with them in the hard times. So my immediate answer would be, they're going to remember who supported them during this time and they're going to remain loyal to them. So I think it's a great question. And one that only time will tell if I had that crystal ball and I wouldn't have to work anymore. I can invest in the market, all that kind of stuff. But at the end of the day, I think it's a great question I think that's something that we'll throw out next week at all of our partners as well, too, just to get their feedback on that as well.

Heidi Ellsworth:
That's good, Adam you were going to say something?

Adam Oaks:
Yeah. I mean, Deryl said at an earlier meeting that you'd moved a ton of your work for the service side, a huge percentage if I remember right. Just because of everything that's going on. And we're meeting with a customer national roofer and I mean, they're changing a lot of their business right now, and they're not expecting to go in a different direction after this is over. They see where they want to fit and where they want to continue to be more profitable instead of changing what they're doing. We're working on an R&D project with them now and how we can help.

Heidi Ellsworth:
So really and to Amy's question again, that's just so good. It's really about a lot of roofing companies are finding better solutions that they're incorporating and they are changing their businesses. They're going forward. However they're doing that. And Jennifer, I know we talked about this on at IRE and there's actually a video out there of you and I talking about this, but to Deryl's point, it's really about showing up and really being there and being at where the contractors are and taking the calls and communicating really strong. What are you seeing with that?

Jennifer Ford-Smith:
Yeah, I think there's an appreciation. I think for any manufacturer to get up there and just take those tough questions. While they're tough, I think people appreciate that people are being transparent and sharing and educating and communicating on what's happening and what we're going to see in the future. And so I think as far as people changing, I think this also gave people an opportunity to change, maybe even the application methods or products that they might have once been hesitant to use, but now they're available and the other stuff's not available. And so you might see a shift, subtle shifts.

Jennifer Ford-Smith:
You're still going to use a cover board, but you might use a high density cover board, or RhinoBond system, you may have been hesitant to use that kind of system and maybe it was more available in your market and you were going to shift to that. So I do think people may change because the environment forced them to try new things. And as far as a relationship standpoint, I think going back to my previous communicate, communicate, communicate, that's all that we can do in these times to continue that partnership with our contractors.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Yeah. I really think so. Will, I would love to hear your take on this on the shift. If you see contractors shifting, or and staying.

Will Lorenz:
Yeah, I think they are. I think they're going to continue to look at labor being scarce and more expensive. And so they're going to look at systems or methodologies to install that roof system that can keep them dry, that cost-effective, and it enhances their profitability. So I think that's going to be part of the changes as well as I think there's still going to be an under current of a trend to go to pre manufacturing of things. And in many parts of the globe, people pre-manufactured a lot of housing and roofing and so forth, and they bring it to the job site. So I think the roofing industry has to be aware that that's going to be a trend where they're going to try and control it at a location, and then just bring in, build on job site rather than construct on the job site from scratch. So I think that's going to be a big trend going forward, whether that's five or 10, 20 years out, but it's still going to be there.

Heidi Ellsworth:
We just actually through our T3, we visited Boxabl in, where were we Vegas? I can't even remember. Yeah. Vegas. And it was amazing. And it was exactly what you're talking about Will, of prefabbing a cube is delivered onto your property and it becomes a house or a caseta or whatever and you can build them like Legos. So that's it, that is spot on. And again, innovation, people are coming together. I love how fast these hours go and I hate it at the same time because there's so many questions, but I want to thank Kyle Chrisman. I want to thank Mike Kicks for your questions. Hopefully we got to them and talking about getting back to work and getting the labor force in there.

Heidi Ellsworth:
The last question of the day I'd like for all of our panelists is I would just like you to share, looking into your crystal ball into 2022, what are your top one or two pieces of advice for the roofing contractors? What should they be looking forward, what should they be thinking about going into 2022. And I'm going to start with Adam on the technology front.

Adam Oaks:
I mean, we're all busy. We're also all waiting for material. There's ups and downs going on right now. And construction industry frankly is in last place when it comes to investing in technology. And I'm not saying that just for our business we got out of it, but invest in areas that can help you automate, help you get data faster, get the data you need to make better decisions. That's where the investment has to be as you move or competition will squeeze you out because without the data, without the knowledge, without the robotic, whatever it is in technology, you'll fall behind. And that's the biggest investment you can make.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Yeah, that's it. Jennifer?

Jennifer Ford-Smith:
I would just saying no one would have predicted where we are today, a year ago. And so I think we got into some bad habits as an industry. And I think that my advice for all of us is just to protect yourself and make sure you're having those conversations and honest conversations. Trent Cotney has some great resources on the NRCA on how to protect yourself with times like this that are uncertain. We have no idea if there's going to be another hurricane and if it's going to drive further inflation and material shortages. And so I think we got complacent in certain areas and we weren't protecting ourselves. So I do feel that's maybe going to be one of the things that change and sticks is that people are going to be looking at the contracts they write and the way they look at how they do business with owners quite a bit differently moving into the future.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Yeah, that's really great, Deryl?

Deryl Kratzer:
Yeah. My advice would be stay close to your customer, go to the customer with a clean slate, listen to them, they'll tell you what they need and then design something that will accommodate their needs. Focus on the client.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Yeah, first thing, Will?

Will Lorenz:
I think as we've done, stay close to your suppliers our raw material suppliers have been our lifeline and allowed us to serve our contractors and our distributors. And so that relationship is long-term and important and it'll sustain you. And then the next thing is, I think it's what we're hearing today is still going to be what we're going to see next year. So we're going to be tight. So get used to the challenges and become more efficient and more agile in this difficult supply market, which has really grown because we've got excessive demand and that's all good for all of us, demand is it.

Heidi Ellsworth:
That is so true. And I would also just on that last piece all of these wonderful, Will, Deryl, Adam, Jennifer, they're all available through their companies, through RoofersCoffeeShop, through their directories, through information that is constantly being put out there. And I want to say too, to Jennifer's point Trent Cotney, and we were talking earlier about the search for estimating, Cotney is doing estimating training. There's just so many areas out there, but really going into 2022, the closer you can stay, the more research, the more information. And we try to bring that every single day, not a plug for CoffeeShop, but really that's where you got to be talking to all of these experts, all these great folks. So I want to thank all of you so much for being here today, for your wisdom. We had some great comments on good stuff. Thank you. Thank you for everything you're doing. And I personally want to thank every single one of you for being here today.

Jennifer Ford-Smith:
Thank [inaudible 00:57:25].

Heidi Ellsworth:
Okay. I also want to thank Johns Manville because they are our sponsored today. You heard Jennifer again, this is a great opportunity to be able to get with this amazing manufacturer, be able to find information on the site. And I just appreciate them so much for being a part of RoofersCoffeeShop and really bringing all of this to you today. So again, Jennifer, thank you very much. And we are excited because we just keep the Coffee Conversations coming. And the next one that we are going to be having will be on October 28th right before Halloween. And it is where roofs go to rest. And it's all about recycling of asphalt shingles. And our friends at Owens Corning are bringing this to us. They have a whole initiative, roofs to roads. And we're going to hear all about that. I'm super excited about that.

Heidi Ellsworth:
We're just going to keep all this information coming through and making sure that all of you have it. So don't forget, if you didn't get your questions answered today, we will be reaching out to you to make sure you did get your questions answered. This was recorded. So it's on demand. Feel free to share it with whoever you want out there, because we want to make sure that everybody gets this great information from our panelists and ongoing on trying to stay ahead of what's happening out there with materials and labor. So again, I'm going to say thank you to all of our panelists for being here today and thank you all for being with us and watching Coffee Conversations. And we'll see you in two weeks. Thanks a lot.

Will Lorenz:
Thank you.

Jennifer Ford-Smith:
Thank you.