TPO vs Roof Restoration: NEED SOME IMPUT!

I need some help here from TPO guys and even those who do roof restorations (coating, fabric and even chopped fiberglass). I recently was on an inspection and a property owner asked my advice. The roof was the original asphalt and gravel roof. Two contractors biding, both were spudding/powerbrooming.

Contractor One was offering a roof restoration with a 10-year warranty (20-22 gallons of emulsion with fabric and 3 gallons of elastomeric coating per square).

Contractor Two was proposing a 45 mil TPO, slip-sheet and a mfg 10 year warranty. I personally always favored roof restoration but there wasn't that much difference in price- The TPO came with a mfg warranty backing the contractor after the first 2 years- I was kinda impressed how far TPO has come and how the price has dropped. What Say You?

I know almost nothing about CFE, but I've put enough emulsion down over the years to know that it's going way outlast a garbabe piece of 45 mil TPO.

I can't imagine 22 gallon's per square, and maybe that's a misprint, dunno, didn't read whole thread. But in my book, it's a no-brainer. Run from TPO, period.

Vaa- My reference to TPO's popularity here in Colorado has to do with lack of state contractor licensing, as opposed to manufacture licensing.

That being said; TPO affords the not-so-qualified individual/outfit to enter the flat roofing market with little, if any merit. IOW's - attend a seminar, buy a few simple tools and walla - your a contender in the flat roofing market.

Whereas in a state such as California that has authentic state licensing, prospective manufacture licensee's are subject to considerably more industry scrutiny/merit. BUR is still alive and well there as it is a viable proven cost-effect method, however requires significant capitol investment as well as authentic crafstmanship/roofing knowledge.

That's one of the reason's TPO is so popular in states like Colorado, (no licensing).

No doubt TPO has taken market share. I don't know what the numbers are but I suspect SPF has also gained market share, although much less.

TPO's gains are worthy of attention but I don't worry about it too much because we operate in a very tiny niche market, and it's in my selfish best interest for it to stay that way. That said, when people discover what a great base SPF is for chopped glass, I think that will catch on too.

Still, it takes about $10,000 to get into TPO and around $100,000 to get into SPF. That barrier alone will limit growth.

It does appear that TPO is taking a huge market share though. I was doing some roof scans for a small company who installs millions of dollars a year of TPO just in the DFW Metroplex.

BTW, has anyone heard or have experience with Carlisle's Fleeceback over SPF? It's supposed have warranty coverage of up to 3" hail. It sounds bullet proof (almost), but looks cost prohibitive....

I think TPO is becoming a commodity roof. It appeals to installers who aren't roofers or who don't want to roof.

TPO is to roofing what TV dinners are to Ruth's Chris. There will always be a market for those wanting a shortcut.

theroofmedic Said: OK.... From now on Im using Word... unbelievable! Hope to meet some of you guys in Vegas next week... even you Tim maybe we can bury the hatchet over a beer.

Did you just threaten me with a hatchet? :)

I have always sold and supported CFE and other roof restorations but it seems that TPO has come along way and the price continues to drop... Never to the $95 per sq price but it has come down a lot!

OK.... From now on I'm using Word... unbelievable! Hope to meet some of you guys in Vegas next week... even you Tim maybe we can bury the hatchet over a beer.

clover83 Said: I guess I could see $250/sq if you had wide open running, no prep work, slip sheet, and no metal work. Absolute easiest roof ever. I hope thats a rate you picked randomly for conversation.

It was random. However, our normal price for the chopped glass system with aluminum coating over smooth is $175-$185/SQR.

This is Texas and prices are cheap. Also, on the right roof that $175/SQR will net $23,000 in a day with 3 men...plus.

This is what I've been saying for a long time - there is far more to the equation than just price-per-square. Production is as important.

So, in theory, if the TPO guys got jumpy, we could lower our price to $95/SQR and still net $7,000.

We don't want to do that, and neither do the TPO guys - they can't win that battle.

theroofmedic Said: Thanks egg- Its kind of embarrassing since I did not proof read it carefully... and I have a minor in writing- but do appreciate you point it out.. all fixed

I think you meant pointing. :cheer:

I guess I could see $250/sq if you had wide open running, no prep work, slip sheet, and no metal work. Absolute easiest roof ever. I hope that's a rate you picked randomly for conversation.

Thanks egg- It's kind of embarrassing since I did not proof read it carefully... and I have a minor in writing- but do appreciate you pointing it out.. all fixed

"...make the "tax" issue mute."

Just to help out a fellow tradesman and not to nit-pick...(because I get the meaning you intended,) the word you were looking for is "moot." It means that something is merely debatable and will yield no practical outcome. One use of the other word, "mute," means the opposite...that no speech is possible. Another, the one that means a general softening, would have to be attached to an "ed" for it to make sense in this case.

Not that it matters much. It's just that moot is basically a legal term and anyone who understands the word and hears you say "mute" is going to think less of you rather than more. We don't want to be giving that type of person any easy opportunity to get condescending with us. They don't deserve it.

The only reason bidding cost is similar for the 2 systems is because that's the market. A TPO roof @ $250/SQR probably has a 30-40% margin whereas an emulsion roof at $250 has a much higher margin. The emulsion also goes down much faster.

If you're looking at where each has to bid to make, say $3,000 profit per day, the emulsion guy can lower his price to $150/SQR and watch the TPO'ers squirt.

If a price war is begun, TPO will lose.