SPF Foam Question

Hypothetical 9,900 sq. ft. metal building question. Would you pay an SPF contractor $36,000 to shoot 2" of SPF and paint white, or would you buy the equipment and do it yourself?

Building has 16' walls, 1/12 pitch, simple rectangle 90' x 110'.

How much would material be on this job?

If a guy gets trained to shoot SPF by a company who specializes in training, can a newbie expect to do a decent job on his first one after training?

Found out I can get R-10 vinyl-backed for less than $5,000 additional cost of the building. That cost difference vs $36,000 would take decades to come back to me in the form of energy savings with 2" of foam.

No sale!

Found out I can get R-10 vinyl-backed for less than $5,000 additional cost of the building. That cost difference vs $36,000 would take decades to come back to me in the form of energy savings with 2" of foam.

No sale!

spudder Said: Selling not doing is my answer sell sell sell sell B) B) B)

spudder Said: Selling not doing is my answer sell sell sell sell B) B) B)

Another point to look at is if the roof has no issues to be addressed spray the spf insulation inside and get the best of both worlds, therm al performance and a roof that doesnt leak after 5 years of thermal shock movement.

These roofs are either excellent or total junk.SPF over a metal roof is a good idea but if it goes bad it will rust out the metal and it'll be almost impossible to fix.I'd suggest hire a contractor and not just anyone.somebody with really good credentials that can give you a resume of his past jobs that you can go and check them yorself.this is a type of roof that one shouldn't go with the cheapest but with the best contractor.

Selling not doing is my answer sell sell sell sell B) B) B)

Lets get back on topic here, is 9mm better than .45 or not?! :-)

A fairly large SPF contractor near here says that some of the new foams are a lot more forgiving than in the past. Or maybe he was talking about equipment - all I know is he says it's a little less complex than before. Of course just because brain surgery is easier than before, doesn't mean any carpenter should be doing it.

This is purely anecdotal, but I do know that everyone and their dog is doing foam these days - heck, there are 15 contractors in Lubbock, Tx, a city of only 220,000. Yet I haven't heard any horror stories about SPF jobs around here. I'm sure there are bad foam jobs around here but I'm not hearing about them, and I know for a fact that at least 5 of the contractors doing foam around here are sub-part contractors.

Both TomHay & garys have valid points.

It isn't rocket science, however, most things in construction really aren't....An average guy w/avg. intellegence & fortitude is capable of a good job.

On the other hand, (this is my own experiences), SPF has always had an uphill battle, so-to-speak, as it has been susceptable to cronic opportunism. by some who really shouldn't have been attempting to apply it..... From the past, I do feel TomHay knows his stuff on the puf....It's not as forgiving, (for lack of better words), as that of more conventional roofing methods.

My coment was not that he would be perfect he would be able to do a good job, and you seem to forget there was a coment about being trained if you are trained and pay attention to the training you have a good chance for sucess. Have you seen any experienced contractors do a bad job I have.

Tom, I agree with you. There are no affordable rigs out there. They all cost 10's of thousands of dollars. Most trailer rigs will go 18- to 35K and you're pumping out of drums. To many. in the industry, they are inconvienet but much more economical. But then you need a $40,000 truck to tow it around with. I think trucks and tanks are a better option. 2.7lb foam we find is optimal. GaryS, how can you say an inexperienced guy has just as much chance? Just as much chance as what? as spraying the wrong building, applying 3/4' or an 1-1/4" instead of 1". How to know if he's A or B rich, what to do if he has a cross over, covering patio furniture, vehicles, sealing air handlers, skylites, overspray. How about proper ladder size. cleaning equip or tools, masking products, I guess we can assume he knows everything. Geez, you're either trying to sell product or foam rigs to anyone I just learned 2 new laws today, I think that qualifies me as a lawyer.....or at least a chance.... How about a closer analogy... I learned how to set forms for concrete and tamp, can I pour your driveway.... Right!

GaryS, as a retired MFG of Urethane Foam and very succesful contractor I find your answer to be the one that leads to people thinking SPF roofs are bad.

My old company offers a complete Trailer Package with 20 Lb per minute machine,Generator, Air Compressor, Transfer Pumps 150' of heated hose and air purge gun for $23,500.00.

Now, as I have told people in the past due to the recession you have LineX and Rhino mechanics (employees) that worked with Polyurea with the same type equipment for years whom are very familiar with the equipment and maintance. They are also familiar with how the substrate needs to be and what happens if you go off ratio or if substrate is not proper as they don't like to tear bad bedliners up. There is still an open window where you might find such a person for $12.00 - $15.00 an hour. Put them with a roofer as the hose man to tell how to do detail work etc and you could stand a chance of making up a crew.

How can you say some of your 11 Foams have better asthetics? As a rule of thumb people spray 2.5 - 3 Lb density foam on roofs, higher the density, smoother the skin and based on persons ability to do overlaps. If you spray a 2 LB foam you go against all guidelines, if you spray over 3 LB you bring the price way up and lose R factor.

Think of it this way. Give a profesional Car Painter a Cup Gun and he will give you an all but flawless finish. Hand the same gun to a novice and you will see runs, overlaps etc. The paint doe not expand. Every drip and run and bad overlap is magnified 30 times its volume with Roofing Foam. :)

As a manufacturer of spf i would say inexperienced folks have just as much chance as anyone to do a good job if they have some good information and support. Spray foam is not rocket science but does take some attention to detail. There are many different foams on the market we actually have 11 standard offerings some have better asthetics than others, some of the closed cell products once painted have as good or better asthetics than most other systems. There are many more affordable spray rigs out there the real key is research many sources and look at things dont just go on the words it might not look the way it sounds.

Yeah, looks undoable the way I wanted to do it. Prolly just let the metal building guy install vinyl-backed insulation like he did on my shop. Not as many R's, and doesn't seal against dust as well, but looks neater as a finished product and less hassles to get on.

As a general rule we used to have a person spend about 1 year, after working 3 to 5 years with company in a training period from one of our employees that had 10 years experiance with our company as a foam mechanic before allowing him to start to spray supervised with a crew.

It however appears I will get to see my roofs outlive 50 years which includes going through many storms such as Andrew. I am in the works of putting a thing together which will be known as SPF Roofs 20 years after Andrew which will feature the same roofs I investagated with Tom Smith and the NRCA as all the addreses are still documented.

I would like to bring this further however. Is it advised for a newbie to apply a PVC roof with little to no training and experiance? How about throwing a torch to a newbie on a job like that for a Mod Bit?

I don't think so, but thats just me. :)

Thanks, Tom