Side Work

I have coffee every morning with a guy that used to own the biggest roofing company in town. He is retired now but goes into the shop most every day. He said that last weekend his son (who now runs the business) was driving around town and saw some of of his guys working on a flat roof. The son went up on the roof and they were putting down a rubber roof with the same kind of rubber that the company uses and no one else in town has. I wonder where they got the rubber? I think the owner of the company was thinking the same thing. Easy to do work cheap when you don't have to buy the materials!

The rubber is "cheap" The accesories are what are really espensive. Anyone bought any cover tape or glue lately? Theives, I hate them!>>>

Might be a good separate thread Robby.

50% cheap-azz materials & 50% labor prfit & o/Head w/ the dumpster sometimes inclded is what I am guessing as the new going out of business" rate. KASH Contracting? I can't prove it. But where there is smoke....

Anyway, a lot of bankruptcies will take place this fall & winter. Just in time for them to return next roofing season :angry:>>>

I have a real interesting question to add to this post.......I have recently seen a trend of legit companies conducting buisiness on a cash basis..."a cash job"...is what they call it. It seems the most legit companies are lowering thier standards to compete with others. Anybody in thier right mind will never admit to taking such an action, but it is taking place.

I wonder how a wrong can be so right through these times.>>>

3rd thing Willie----- use your own tools. They will never price correctly until they do :laugh:>>>

Jesse, that is totally unacceptable! Thats a strong referral lead stolen from your company by your own employee! This violates 1 of my 2 main rules concerning side work. The lead can not come from the companys job or other sources and you can not work on your side job during the week unless we have no work for you or it was agreed upon beforehand. Woody, your post before the one above made me bust out laughing! ( the last post on page 2 ) lol But guys just remember this issue will never go away. At least half the time i hire a company to do something around my house at least one of their employees will try and get me to hire them for something. Heck i even called a taxi one time and the cab driver offered to pick me up for the return trip in his own car "off the record" for half price. ITs a part of life my friends! :)>>>

When I was distributing tile, employees that wanted to go out on their own were encouraged to do so as long as they didn't go after my customers. I had reached the limit of the vollume I wanted my roofing company to do (liability wise) in this climate, but wanted to grow the distribution company, so if they were upfront about it, I worked with them.

The thing was, they thought I was the one making the big bucks off them at the roofing company, then when they were on their own, they thought I was the one making the big bucks off of them selling them materials, even though I was at or below other distributors prices. But virtually everyone of them later wanted to come back and work for my roofing company. Letting them try it on their own can make them appreciate what they have as employees.>>>

Thank you Jed. I did see that I left off a critical part of the question. The "?" was previously not present in my sentence: Maybe that sheds a different light on your view?

However, addressing your last post, I had no policy of any kind on side work, until the above described scenario took place just a couple years ago. The policy had to be enforcable, and it had to address the occurance firmly. Since almost no low slope work takes place in our area as a "side job", my policy is not terribly restrictive. It's not like they are going to go do a side foam job, or buy a Varimat for buddy bob's garage.

I have 4 former employees that are now in business for themselves. I wish them all the best in their efforts, as I hope the same for me. It's a competitive world.

I think Serrano's points were well stated regarding the effect that side work can have on the industry, and the rubber stamp that we give it when it's allowed. However, that doesn't stop me from recommending some of my guys to a homeowner when they have a project that just isn't quite "up my alley". In fact I'm glad to provide the lead and see the guys put a few extra bucks in their pocket doing something for 1/2 the price I could have done it. I know they will do it right too, which is hit-or-miss for the consumer if they are relying on the yellow pages.>>>

Mike, I did'nt realise you were expecting a follow up or would have done so. If the follow up is to the question posed:- And can any of you really say with a straight face that a guy not showing up for work so that he could do a cash deal for a LEGITIMATE COMPETITOR is OK in your book? Come on, seriously?

Then the answer would be no, clearly, but that was'nt the sole issue being addressed. The "hearty F/U" was'nt aimed at you personally but at the policy of purchasing 10 sq or less of materials directly from you which I think is just petty. As for the professional contracting/NFL question, it's rhetorical. >>>

I'm just wonderin' why after being called a tightwad slave owner, and given a hearty F.U. I can't get an answer to my follow up? Was I that inconsiderate and unreasonable?

It is worth pointing out that many industries have employment restrictions and considerably stringent attendence requirements. Why are the needs of a professional contracting company any less or more important than the needs of an NFL franchise? The scales may be vastly different, but the cores are the same.

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---I had a guy working for me that was doing side work and charging the material on MY account. My supplier thought it was me doing the job so they didn't question it. Of course, when I got the bill and saw some delivery addresses that were not familiar the jig was up. I called my suppliers and notified each that this person was not authorized to charge any materials. When confronted he confessed that he would be paying me out of the job payment, blah, blah blah...and expected to continue the practice. I told him that he could start his own company with my blessing but he could not do both. ---In spite of that experience, I accept sidework as SOP for roofers. I do expect to be treated fairly. That is, job leads off my jobs are mine. Relatives and friends of theirs are theirs. Roofing is a tough trade and the guys that work for me are friends and I appreciate them so I am willing to do as much as I can to help them survive. I do not ever hire strangers. Thus, I am more trusting and tolerant. I know that other companies have to be much stricter or they will be taken advantage of and possibly even go under if they are too giving. ---I also do not always have work...so I am actaully glad when they have a side job. I allow them to schedule it accordingly. They might say, "My uncle wants me to roof such and such..." I say, "We will finish this weeks job on Wed. Set it up for Thursday through the weekend." ---I am too easy going as my wife will point out and I have been taken advantage of many times. I have at least a dozen people owing me money, some several thousand. I told my wife a generous person sleeps at night with a smile and a scrooge worries and frets over a few pennies. I have tightened up a little bit but I know it will happen again. Dishonest people cannot always be avoided. A friend of mine works for a large apartment. I asked him if they ever take people to court over unpaid rent, damage, etc. He said, the owner has a policy about never kicking a skunk. ---The bottom line is each company is different and will have their own policies about sidework. By the way, I have worked for over 10 different roofing companies down through the years. None ever complained about me doing side work and I did plenty. Lanny>>>

see Jed's post WE GOT TAKEN This will be his next move :(>>>

This morning I explained to the employee that it was unacceptable for him to do that. Then I brought everyone in and explained to them that if they do something like this they will be fired to.>>>

Because I somehow have the ability to look like a lowly roofer and not a roofing company executive, sometimes I get approached by a neighbor looking to get off cheap by trying to get a roofer to do his work on the side. I usually mention to the guy that I could lose my job by doing it and kind of feel for where he's coming from and whether he persists. Outcomes have varied from my company getting the job at my normal rates to me telling the sob what a greedy bustard he is for trying to get someone to risk their job to save him a few bucks.>>>

Jesse, based on your last post about him being approached by a neighbor on one of your jobs, dump him now. That is not proper and cannot be tolerated. As to side work in general........... I have worked for a lot of different companies. I always did side work, no matter who I worked for. I have a very hard time banning side work. I have very mixed feelings about it and as Copperman and elcid said there are issues that can come back and bite me in the ass if things go south... and things can go south in a heartbeat.. I don't worry about my guys going on their own. Go ahead, have fun. I have had my foreman sign a non-compete paper since I have hired his wife to help out in the office a couple times a week. She signed one also. In this trade is very easy to find side work. A couple of repairs, a small roof job can provide some easy cash in the pocket for a guy. It can make a big difference in the personal finances. Who doesn't need a little extra cash? It's a tough call. I don't want to dictate to anyone what they can and cannot do. But I don't want it to affect my life and business.>>>

IMO, if I bid on the job , and you work for me, I better not catch you this weekend doing this roof, if I do, you will be starting your own business then and there. I have heard a lot on here over the months about under the table competition, no comp, no gl, no benefits, cash only, and they are a very big reason , you lose jobs , pay higherr insurance premiums, etc. This has nothing to do with controling someones life on the weekend, I could care less if any of my guys get drunk, go fishing, go to church, whatever, THAT, is none of my business., and , also, if they have a side job, I don't care where they buy materials, and I don't care if they do it on their own time, none of my business. They will not be working here though, if they bite the hand that feeds them, and feeds me, that is the only place I draw a line. You can't tell me how easy it is to start and build and continue your business, 'If it was that easy , everone would do it", so until any of my people want to walk the walk, I do not welcome them , when they are working with me, as competition. iF THEY SERIOSLY WANT TO COMPETE, then you know what, or walk the walk, let's see what happens on a level playing field, wouldn't be fair if I had to run the ball up-hill the whole game, while they always ran downhill. So, my opinion is somewhere in the middle on this. Case closed.>>>