Repair Survey

The next disaster in the roofing industry is now being set up: Metal roof failures. Not so much product, but installation.

Which brings me to my survey:

Will these failures be fixable, and therefore go into the REPAIR category, or when the problems arise, will these panels go straight into the dumpster and these projects become REPLACEMENT.

What say you?

1st. pic is showing 3/4 gap between the lock strip and the end of the panel in a valley. LOTS of water wicks around the standing seam, so the 3/4" gap makes 90% of that land outside the lock strip. I assume you already know to never pull panels tight to any drip edge or lock strip. I just make more room and fold 1-1/2". 2nd. pic is the water relief behind the lock strip at the bottom of the valley for the remaining 10%.

Thanks Tinner, I've already learned a lot from your pics here, and behind every other search page that comes up!

Would you mind explaining what you've shown? 1st pic, I'm not sure that I know what your referencing. 2nd pic, don't recognize those cuts for sure. The type of metal I'm installing has the perforated clips on one side of the panel. I wouldn't mind if this was the last time I used that feature. Job for the supplier, next time I hope to demand my material & trim package.

flatbed, if you have any questions about it, I have pix and all details needed, including how to gap cleats, the spread over valley lock strips, etc. Give me a call if you want.

This important detail.

Details like this that are used on all metal roofs,but aren't in any books anywhere.

Good post pgriz. We started installing our first hidden fastener roof on Monday, and have only done AG metal on metal buildings so far. I am not the type to jump in to something without racking my brain until I've almost over thought it. What's made it worse is the amount of BAD info available on the internet, and I'm not just talking about youtube.

I looked at several videos & manuals from our supplier, and several other suppliers such as Fabral. Talk about conflicting information! One of the big names has a video that says to lap valley metal 2" if you have to use more than one panel :blink:

I called the company to ask two questions on their suggested methods, NEITHER of which were they able to answer. So basically, your manufacturers are just guys who figured out that you can setup shop in a big pole barn, and sell metal to guys who already know what their doing, yea right!

edit: the questions I asked, they said they had been asked several times over the past year. He asked the technical dept for details but never gets a response.

We do 90-95% metal roofs. Aluminum shingles, steel shingles, steel panels, hidden-fastener panels, and occasionally, custom sheet metal. We are often asked to fix metal roofs installed by other contractors. It's almost always a question of installation, and/or preparation and/or failure to modify a standard approach for a specific situation. The products that we stay away from are the screw-through panels which are while popular also seem to have the most issues.

The fact that the roof covering is metal does NOT mean that all the other roofing practices are now obsolete. There are still the issues of insulation, ventilation, deck and rafter construction, water flow and direction, wind effects, roofing penetrations, snow and ice loads, and so on. There are also issues of galvanic corrosion (if the wrong metals are in contact), snow avalances (if smooth metal is used in snow country), expansion/contraction issues (especially with long panels), noise issues (if the material is floating and can resonate), condensation and appropriate choice of material to the conditions in that location.

I would say that on average, the cost of installing the metal roof covering is under half of the cost of the project, the rest being stripping and preparing the roof, fixing the insulation and ventilation, correcting the various issues with plumbing vents, skylights, dormers, and decorative features, and ensuring that the whole assembly is waterproof. Of course, many of our competitors don't bother with all that bother and cost, and that is perhaps why we CAN expect more issues in the future.

As for your question, Tom, it depends on whether the original metal roof was properly designed and properly installed. If the design is poor, then it's putting lipstick on a pig. Better to start over. If the installation was poor, then usually it's not everywhere, but at specific places which can be repaired. But really, so much depends on what was driving the guy(s) who installed it.

Someone has to tell them that the peel and stick doesn't do either and it is not for "roofing" Wow!

I only offered to replace this new roof. Not sure why it leaked the first day though. :woohoo: http://www.rooferscoffeeshop.com/show_album_photo.asp?userid=30&AlbumID=456&file=3148&s=0

I fix metal roofs often. Exposed fastners and hidden. I agree metal is good but the lack of knowledge is causing problems. A go behind other roofers but even more are the general contractors that think that roofers make to much money and metal is so easy so they think they will just dip into that pot. A lot of the time the roofs are installed incorrectly from the start. Its not fun or easy telling someone that they just spent $30,000-$80,000 thousand dollars for a great metal roof that now needs to be taken off. I start small and try to stop the leaks but tell them that they will have problems in the future as well. I have one to fix this week. I will try to fix it easy and cheap but it all needs to be taken off. I'm in California and sheet metal shops can install roofs over here too. I looked at a roof one did a year or so ago and they put exposed fasters in a hidden fastner panel. Would love to know what they were thinking.

I will fix metal roofs until they can't be fixed anymore. and a good caulk goes along way on a metal roof !!!

If they have dog house material on their house, I just give a price to put a real metal roof on. If it has a metal roof on, and it's detail issues around penetrations, I offer repairs. Sad thing is that when they gpt proposals and tok the lowest bid, that cost plus my repairs usually total up to 30%+- MORE than the highest bit they got.

Good news is, I make more 'profit' on the repair work, with less 'exposure' to overall liability for the building, and less material costs too.

Yes AG for agriculture Another name is EF......Exposed Fastener, but that is a include a broader category of panels. AG panels specifically are the 3' wide ones.

Pole Barn metal! Hillbillies here call it Standing Seam :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

We do some pole barn metal roofing. AG you guys are calling it? Does that stand for agricultural? Most of the mental roofs we do are standing seam with all hidden fasteners and clips. They will hold up if done right. ALL of the pole barn metal will leak, some sooner than later, but it will leak. It is a LOT cheaper to install than the standing seam material, but not half as good when completed.

What a lot of people are not thinking about is that the paint will fail on all of these roofs sooner than later and that is a real pain to get up and paint on. It is more expensive that redoing the roof. What are they thinking?

I only get a very small hand full of metal roof calls every year. Around here metal is rarely used in the metro area. It's more popular in the country side and on lake front homes.

I usually don't work on metal roofs at all due to this low demand but recently a friend of my wife had a huge porch built onto her home and a metal roof installed on it. It leaked and she called the installer back out twice but they couldn't find the problem so the leak continued.

Finally, she told my wife about it and I went over to check it out. I found a reference point I could use from on the roof and measured to the leak area from underneath. When I repeated that on the roof the end of my tape measure fell right on top of a nail. I reached down with two fingers and pinched the nail and it pulled right out with no resistance. They had driven it into thin air and it was causing the leakage. I just put a little geocel in the nail hole and on the underside of the nail and put it back. Hasn't leaked a drop since. :laugh:

Yes they want a cheeeep metal roof covering that will last "forever" :dry:

My advise to them is still the same: Replace your asphalt shingles with asphalt again.

Save your money and save the heartache

Also, many around here don't run a drip edge or gable covering. We are just now coming around to installing AG metal on houses, give the people what they want. We are doing our first vertical seam hidden fastener this week.