No registration for Texas roofers.

egg Said: Its important to try to keep your wife happy and its important to keep your energy positive. Cant deny that. Wouldnt deny that. Hate to have you disappear because I enjoy your posts. Maybe this is part of the weeds that make you stronger you were mentioning. Biting the top off a beer doesnt, even though it usually feels like it does. In the end, it always returns the favor.

Every environment has its downside. Every opinion has its blind side. We need a clear view of our opposites the way a catamaran needs outriggers. I havent owned a television in thirty years, but I keep my finger on the pulses around me. It was a hard lesson, but by staying true to my heart I carved out an existence I can believe in and take comfort in. It was an even harder lesson, but I discovered that even at the pinnacle of my own brilliance there is a lot of dumb in there. Humble exuberance is the only way to go. That and hard work. Think like a king, work like a slave. Be willing to do the best that you can and able to let the world take care of the rest by itself, even if its wrong.

AWESOME !!!!! B) :) :) B) Deep Down In Florida Where The Sun Shines Damn Near Every DAy

It's important to try to keep your wife happy and it's important to keep your energy positive. Can't deny that. Wouldn't deny that. Hate to have you disappear because I enjoy your posts. Maybe this is part of the weeds that make you stronger you were mentioning. Biting the top off a beer doesn't, even though it usually feels like it does. In the end, it always returns the favor.

Every environment has its downside. Every opinion has its blind side. We need a clear view of our opposites the way a catamaran needs outriggers. I haven't owned a television in thirty years, but I keep my finger on the pulses around me. It was a hard lesson, but by staying true to my heart I carved out an existence I can believe in and take comfort in. It was an even harder lesson, but I discovered that even at the pinnacle of my own brilliance there is a lot of dumb in there. Humble exuberance is the only way to go. That and hard work. Think like a king, work like a slave. Be willing to do the best that you can and able to let the world take care of the rest by itself, even if it's wrong.

I can't speak for Texas - But, I do know that consumers pay considerably less for same products/roofs in CA. as compared to Colorado.

Another interesting fact, is that piece-work rates are much lower in CA. as compared to Colo., yet hourly wages in CA. are much higher than Colo.

Another interesting phenomenon, is that roofers, in general, are much more proficient from CA. as compared to Colo. In the mid-90's we had to bring most of our roofers from CA., as the Colo. roofers demanded insane piece-rates, and were lethargic to boot!.....CA. boys came out and worked for far less pc-wk prices, ran circles around em' made waaayy more $! Go figure!

Not sure what or if licensing has anything to do with it - But, could be that since CA. demands such stringent standards, that the overall effect is proficiency, rather than glutinous behaviors, such as what hail storm & the absence of licensing affords.....just a thought..... ;)

TomB Said: I have been a licensed contractor in CA. since 1983 & a contractor in Colorado since 1992. It is my first-hand experience that the general quality of work in CA. fare exceeds the quality in Colorado.

Yes, CA. is generally a PIA due to bldg. code enforcement and licensing, as compared to Colorado where there is minimal bldg. code enforcement and no licensing for GCs or roofers.

The pay-off, is for the consumer & the legitimate business professional. The consumer, in that there is some solace knowing that licensed contractors all must maintain at least minimal credit worthiness & trade/business knowledge to even be in business. The legitimate business for competing with generally like-qualified competitors.

Well Tom, that's the major difference between Texas and some other states. All that additional licensing and stricter building codes come at an unavoidable cost. That cost is passed thru to the "consumer" in a roof that costs more when that additional costs adds no tangible value - it is simply the cost of red tape.

In Texas most citizens don't want their hands held by a building codes or licensing department. They believe in Caveat Emptor, and they want that extra $400 in their pocket, not in the hands of another bloated incompetent government entity.

I have been a licensed contractor in CA. since 1983 & a contractor in Colorado since 1992. It is my first-hand experience that the general quality of work in CA. fare exceeds the quality in Colorado.

Yes, CA. is generally a PIA due to bldg. code enforcement and licensing, as compared to Colorado where there is minimal bldg. code enforcement and no licensing for GC's or roofers.

The pay-off, is for the consumer & the legitimate business professional. The consumer, in that there is some solace knowing that licensed contractors all must maintain at least minimal credit worthiness & trade/business knowledge to even be in business. The legitimate business for competing with generally like-qualified competitors.

Tom, you can tell us with "absolute" confidence that "generally" the quality if higher in licensure states?

Which is it, absolutely, or generally? :-)

That's the issue, you make these matter of fact statement but then it turns out they're only for opinion based mostly on anecdote.

Licensing may have improved things in Florida, I don't know. But everything I hear from contractors is that there are more fly-by-nights there than anywhere. I'm sure a lot of that is due to the great weather and hurricanes, but I have not heard that it is a great bastion if virtuous roofers. :-)

Possibly things have changed - However, I'm not privy to any earth-shattering developments as to state licensing activity in the last two decades.....

Having said that; Florida, along with most of the far-west states, (Wash, Ore. Ca., NV, AZ, NM, UT, ID), are the only states with any sort of effective state licensing. Everything else is pretty-much free-rein.

I can tell you with absolute confidence that, GENERALLY, there is huge quality of work, as well as public perspective aspects in a license state vs non-licensed.

Deep Down In Florida Where The Sun Shines Damn Near Every Day a licensed State, code is enforced. I've been in the roofing business here for 30+ years. I can tell you licensing has been good for Florida. After hurricane Andrew 1991 enforcement became fierce.It has been good overall for the State with standards high and communities greatly improved.

Deep Down In Florida Where The Sun Shines Damn Near Every Day B) :) :) B)

clvr & CRFG; No offense guys, but I don't believe the licensing you have in Ill. is worth the expense your gov't squanders on it. Licensing needs to be structured so it actually works. It sounds as if there is plenty of unlicensed activity going on, so as to raise doubt as to it's effectiveness.

I do business in two completely different states, with two completely different set of dynamics. One has effective licensing, one has zero state licensing, however has a complicated/idiotic maze of municipality licensing that is a total waste of time & money. So I can empathize with those that have not experienced authentic licensing so-to-speak.

Roofguy; 1. It has been my experience that the "old line roofers" fight venomously against state licensing, as it would break-open their rice bowl. 2. Some roofers would much rather win jobs based on their merit & actual ability/knowledge/experience, rather than a good ole' boy/salesmanship basis.

Licensing is promoted by 2 very different groups: 1. Old line roofers wanting to protect their rice bowl. and; 2. Roofers who don't feel like they can compete if their ability is all they have to rely on. They want laws that help them sell jobs.

#2 are busybodies wanting to create more red tape for all and surrender the liberties of others, to cover for their own shortcomings.

This argument has so many parallels to the Second Amendment. The anti-gun people want you to believe that making guns illegal will make things safer for everyone. It's foolish. It doesn't work. It is antithetical to the American spirit of individuality and self-reliance.

Like Clvr83 I am in Ilannoys with it's convoluted licensing law. I was against it when it came out and don't see much advantage to having it. So much for free enterprise. It's just more government regulation and basically another tax so that the politicians can reward their buddies with overpaid government jobs. It has weeded out a lot of the low-life's who cannot get a bond because their credit is bad but most of them were small potatoes anyway. From where I sit the weakest spot in the law is that it does nothing to prevent contractors from working crews without work comp insurance. To get the license you have to carry general liability but only need w/c if you have employees. So most contractors hire sub crews and they may carry a shell policy but there is no way that the sub is actually claiming any employees. Therefore these contractors can consistently bid 1/3 lower than anyone who has employees. The homeowner doesn't know that the workers on their roof are not insured if someone gets hurt and that if they do it will fall on the homeowners insurance. It's very frustrating to quote jobs and have these homeowners think that I am the one who is trying to screw them. Fortunately I have been in business over 20 year and have a great reputation and get more than enough leads to keep very busy. Until the licensing bureaucrats close this loophole the licensing law is basically worthless.

I'm on the fence. We've been licensed since 1987, even before it was mandatory in IL. I lose jobs to unlicensed guys enough to notice, but not enough to complain. I get my share.

I also clean up after licensed guys quite often. A license does nothing for the crew's ability to put on a roof, it only says that one party can pass a test. The biggest problem with licensing is that it's not upkept, and it's not enforced. I'd gladly take a test every four years to prove I'm still knowledgeable, whereas there are many guys out there have been grandfathered in and would have no chance at passing the test.

If we didn't have a licensing system already in place, I'm not sure I'd want one. We had at least five commercial jobs done by unlicensed outfits in my town over the past two years, a town of 10,000. That kind of burns my bum. The town 10 miles away and three times as big has a great inspector and you don't get by with that crap there.

If that's truly how they, (larger contractors), feel - They're cutting off their nose to spite their face.....The reality of it, is that licensing promotes increased trust from the consumer base.

In a non-licensed environment. the big, long established outfits have an advantage, as the consumer typically feels safer going with the big/established contractor, and may be far less-likely to engage a younger or smaller-sized outfit, regardless of authentic knowledge/credibility.

If all, (contractors), are held to like criteria; Trade knowledge & business management abilities/testing, as well as financial stability, a consumer is far more likely to give the younger &/or less experienced outfit a shot, whereas w/o licensing, it's a total crap-shoot, and any reasonable/fair-minded consumer would most-likely not even consider the smaller guy.

Licensing puts the hurt on the good ole boy network, as well as the main-stream unscrupulous types. It does promote consumer confidence of the industry, as well as afford smaller or less experienced contractors more opportunities.

TomB Said: The absence of licensing allows for the established to maintain dominance, as well as afford opportunity for the unscrupulous, which some might classify in the same crew.

...

At least in my experience, in Ohio, it is the establishment, ORCA, the board of which is comprised of contractors all much larger than I, that has promoted the licensing.

I think more often than not, they want it to eliminate the competition.

The absence of licensing allows for the established to maintain dominance, as well as afford opportunity for the unscrupulous, which some might classify in the same crew.

Add the fact people are generally less inclined to change - are difficult to pry from their comfortable situation, miserable as it might be.

It's comfy to those powers at be - to the established outfits - I can say with much confidence that Texas will never, ever employ state licensing - Likewise, neither will Colorado.