New licenses and growth

You cannot eliminate sub contractors. You can enforce the taxes and such that would even the field and eliminate them as far as the cheating is concerned.

Right on Tico! I realize a bit off topicis....However, that's where our focus, as an industry should be....Clean-up the illegal worker mess....We/they, can pass all the idiotic laws/legislation...Not gonna help...Get to the root; Eliminate the illegal workforce.

As I've said for many years; It's real simlple. Two dynamics; 1) Do away with the "sub-game" 2) Gov't not accept bogus SS #'s. That would do it.

Tico, that was a mouthful there!

Rocky, The cost per unit installed is going to go up with a larger company. There is no way around it. You have to have extra layers of people supervising, and then managers over the supervisors. That all adds to the cost of doing business! Now if you can get an extra 60% for your work, it can be covered, but eventually you will run into a smaller more lean company that has a good salesman and they will cut you out. I would if I had to.

Hey, I say go for it if you want to, but I still question the wisdom of all that extra liability and work for the money that you will get. How much is enough? I don't know the answer so I am not criticizing mind you, but from my point of view it doesn't make sense. Course, I started in this world with absolutely nothing and I still have most of it left!

Rocky dog, you can sell that "let me justify my profit margin" speech up the block. That's A bag of crap. It is hollow. Regardless, who's fault it is, no one should allow it to happen on their watch, sadly, right behind hiring them comes the boast of "let me tell yo how much money I make". Theirs solutions to every problem. I had A hurt people over drug debt, and drug use problem 24 years ago, I found A solution. I had driving my street drag bikes to fast problem and street drag racing my hot rods. They sure found out how to fix that. Everything has its albatross. As to Hispanics, I was born and raised in Miami. I'm 52. I witnessed and understood the exodus. I also know what the Cuban did for Miami. They are merchants and workers by blood history. They built Miami from the 60's on. Yeah, they also figured out and became Americanized. Sadly it impacted their culture. I watched my stepfather, from panama, and several of his friends in the Jockey community (Angel Corderro, Braulio Baeza, Jacinto Vasquez, Laffite Pincay jr.,Jorge Velazquez,),get citizenships. The lawyers, the studying the test, the oath. Their is A big difference in people who are making A pilgrimage, and will perservere to become A citizen. I take no issue with that. As to your American dream. Solidify your place. Mange your crews. Physically send someone to check the workers stuff. The IRS has made it mandatory to use certified payroll. When someone hires A sub, you will, everyone does. Think about the American. Take the time to check their employees for certification, not just pay the Jefe, and skip out at that point. I doubt big ticket roofing companies really care. It's easier to lounge in the wealth. Hire and work illegals, and piss on what's proper. When you have A govt. as we do, that doesn't lead by example, it's not hard for others to follow suit. Sitting here watching people scrape and grub, soldiers, our seniors, our homeless. Twice since the economic crash I've lost good jobs to illegals. The last one, doing commercial const. The contractor was paying me 20 bucks an hour. One day he told me he didn't need me. He'd hired 2 guys, at 7 bucks an hour. He laughed in my face and said he could put 6 bucks back in his pocket. Good luck, really, it's nice to see A nail pounder get up. Now let's see you do it honorably. When you hear, or read things that offend you about your methods, when they become less than honorable, it's me. Yo no tengo pello en mi lengua. No hair grows on my tounge.

I dunno Rocky my o/ head on well under 1/2 mil is only between 30-33%. And that is with hrly workers and a salary I can live on. Profit is bonus.

FIXED O/ Head will prolly stay relatively flat as sales increase. VARIABLE O/Head will likely increase. But it should be a managed cost, hrly, per sq., or whatever unit of measurement you use.

Our gooberment is the culprit allowing the illegal workers. Then come the unscrupulous employers. The illegal immigrant is simply a symptom.

Going national makes sense for commercial & hailstorm chasing, (if you've the stomache for it).

Overheard increases exponentially with rise in sales....To think one can do 1/2 mil more work w/o any overhead increase is.....well......(a bit naive?)

Setting up shop(s), in completely foriegn business environments is very risky....Keep that hail $ from the freak AZ storm and be greatfull. Wouldn't it be easier/ make more economical sense, to increase your market share in AZ?

Tico, Actually, I don't have a problem with the documented roofer. As far as the undocumented workers, this nation was built on the backbone of documented and undocumented workers, for over 200 years. How about all the african american who kidnapped from the families and countries and brought over here to do slave labor? Now, I know I'm walking on thin ice, but the problem really lies in the owners. They are the real perpetrators and perpetuators of the problem. They all say "we're just tring to make a living and pay our taxes", "just leave us alone and don't legislate us anymore" "We make the world go round". All kinds of rationalization to confirm their positions. You heard we have the toughest sheriff in the nation down here. He walks into business on a weekly basis and pulls a INS raid on their employees. Alot of it is for the cameras, but it has had an effect on the number of people hanging out on the corners of Home Depot. Most resturant workers are now white people. same with landscaping. Still alot of hispanic in the roofing industry. I would reckon most of them are legal,somehow. and there is nothing wrong with Hispanics in the work force as long as they are legal. OS, just because someone can do 10 million or 20 million a year means they have to make less margin or money. My margins haven't changed because I sell more now, my overhead drops dramtically with more sales. Overhead is always much higher in a smaller company, percentage wise. My overhead is 30%, at a 2.4 million breakeven point with 5% net profit. I can do 5 million with almost the same amount of overhead 750K to $800K a year as I can on the 2.4 million. Yes I have to buy more material and more manpower, but that doesn't touch the additional 750k to 800k nor the 5% net profit. It is paid from the first 2.4 mil. And remember, my wages, all my costs, are included in the overhead. I'm not telling any secrets here. These are standard operating procedures. I don't want to sound like boasting, but I really don't care who knows what I make. I have a tenth grade education, pounded nails for 25 years for someone else and then decided to take a chance. I was scared as hell. I feel my company can be a nationally company and thats the direction were heading. We've built a great team. Ive worked for so many companies that beat down their employees, including me, and decided I ain't taking this shi.... no more. Most of those companies, maybe all of them are out of business. I treat my customers great and more employees even better. I do very little advertising, most of my work comes from repeat , referrals and door knocking the neighborhood we're working in.

I don't think they should be worrying so much about licensed contractors. They should enforce documented workers. That would ghost town many companies and job sites.

Rocky, I know what you are saying, but I am just curious as to the why? I gues it all boils down to the margin you have on all of the sales. 15% on a million us just as good as 1.5% on 10 mmilion, and the bigger you get, the lower the percentage goes; too much overhead. I would shudder at the liability and the theft that would go on. I hope you have the right people, because you are going to need them. Good luck with that one.

If you want to come to Michigan, call me. I would love to meet you. John

I'm back fro Cal and the test was a breeze. Fingerprints and a 12,5k bond and I'm all set. Montana, Missouri, Colorado, Texas: They're all in the same pack. Cali is a little tougher and so is Illinois. I thought centimark was all commericial. Gotta have sales before I have installers. OS, there is a lot of ego stuff in here, and goals and "I told you so's". I'm still hungry for the fight, too. I've got a good team, and looking for more. Players with the right attitude. I really don't care what the economy is doing, forward or recession. We have a go get-em style that has brought to almost 10 million is sales in 10 ten years and hopefully 20 in the next 5. We're still learning and not afraid to be taught a new lesson. I wish I started this when I was 37 or even 30 years old. Steve, gives me a couple of months if not sooner and you'll be hearing from me, Thanks. Egg, I think you hit the nail on the head. It doesnt matter the economy or the industry for that matter. There is plenty of work out there, always has been, if someone wants to go get it. Then it's a question of how much of it do you want. Nothing happens until someone makes a sale. Unknown author.

I know that my area could stand some competition now that I've retired. ;) No, seriously, email me with any questions Rocky. I'm located in Bakersfield, California. Have some good equipment as well. Steve Cagle, email: jcagle9595@aol.com

It wouldn't to you and it wouldn't to me, but Rocky clearly has the heart for it.

Frankly, I don't think the economy is ready for growth in the typical sense. That's not to say growth isn't possible for an entity working within a non-growth sector. Companies grow sloppy, make mistakes, run out of enthusiasm and a new guy can pull things back together his way if he's organized, capitalized, driven, and lucky. Happens all the time. Don't need "growth" if you aren't doing "new work." If you're going to base projections on new-work, not so cool. If you're going to base them on discipline, precision, good will and vision, why not?

Holy smoke guy. My only question is why would you want to put yourself through that much grief. Sounds like a whole lot of work to me and I don't know if the money would every be worth the headaches.

Not hiring roofers/laborers? I've heard the questions on the IL test are very unique these days. I need to get to studying sometime myself.

Wow, could we be witnessing the birth of Centimark 2?