New, clean thread

I am not really sure what the fuss is all about, but for the record jim and i have casually known each other via a forum much like this one-for about 10 years. Period. that's our only connection-we have never met in person-and we have no business dealings together.

what people think we are" selling"- I can't even imagine.

when I first met jim- he was a framing contractor- and since he is about 10 years older than me- he has hired and fired-waaaay more people than i have even worked with

I typically do a lot of work solo-or with a small crew-and since jim had so much more experience in hiring- he once upon a time gave me a few pointers-basically DON"T hire a helper-and think you are going to train them to be a roofer.- If you want a roofer- hire a roofer- if you want a laborer- hire a laborer-and once I started doing things as jim suggested- life got a lot easier

seems simple to those of you who have hired a lot of folks- but it was helpfull to me

regaurding the bit about negotiation

for over 20 years- I have been firmly in the camp of" my price is my price. Period"

this has worked well for me-and i have never had a reason to change however, jim-(and another gentleman,actually) mentioned to me once upon a time- that if a prospective customer wants to dicker-usually what they are saying is that they WANT to hire you- but if you refuse to do a little haggling you are gonna lose the sale.

Personally?- i am a little insulted by haggling- but recently I had a new experience- I had met a propsective customer who had responded to one of our door hangers. I measured his roof, gave him several options on how to proceed- left him with copies of several magazine articles I had published over the last 10 years or so-and a week or so later he contacted me.

On our first meeting I learned that the customer was 78 years old, had spent his life working as a teacher and admistrator in a Lutheran school( my wife teaches in a catholic school, I learned that he strongly prefered to proceed in one particular direction if it was feasible( it was feasible) and I learned that he had a house that I was interested in.

some days after our initial meeting the prospect contacted me. He told me that he had saved a certain amount of money and was trying to get the project done for a specific price- could I get closer to the price he had in mind? what we eventually arrived at was that I agreed to reduce my price $674 IF we could schedule the project for a specific week that I wanted to do the project.

i have since learned that the price we agreed on- is still about $1000 MORE than the otehr company he was considering- but he is happy with our arrangement------ and I am happy with the arrangement as well as doing the project that specific week gives me a chance to work my sons fingers to the bone, LOL

Now------- someone has implied that jim and I are shilling something- I really don't know what they could be taking about- but let me lay this out there

for well over 20 years now my whole business plan has been to work less- for more money. I learned some things particpating in another forum which helped me in this- but basically for 20 years I worked almost entirely in my own neighborhood-within a 8-10-12 block radius of my house. I work about 1000 hours a year- roughly 700 in production-300 in overhead-and I largely cherry pick projects. I don't do ANY new construction- the work doesn't interest me- I concentrate on houses almost entirely from the 1920's or earlier. I have always done a portion of my work in slate & tile-and I am working to increase that portion now that I am even more semi retired. Quite simply I don't need to earn the way I used to- I own a nice home in the neighborhood I grew up in, I put my wife through college, my oldest son through 17 years of private school and the yougest son through 13 years of private school( he is currently finishing up at a trade school that HE paid for-gotta love that!- so- I don't need to earn the way I used to- but since I NEVER spent more than about 700 in production I ALWAYS had to make sure that EVERY hour of sweat was highly remunerative( hence no new construction)

for you folks who think Jim and I are shilling something or have something going on under the surface------ the fact of the matter is I think we are both suprised to run into each other HERE- much the same that you might be suprised to go on vacation ,rent a beach house 800 miles away from home and end up staying next to somebody you know from church back home.

Best wishes all, stephen

Double post, sorry WTF lol

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Nice turn around egg, thankyou. I'd like to add one to the list.

Accidents don't "happen" they are "caused".

No Lefty? Something just don't seem right about that.

...and woody: the hare has some good paydays but the turtle wins the race.

A remembrance of discussions of varying length in the years past:

1) From Darryl (spudder8): paraphrased: stick to your price of course and let them know the only way to drop the price is to lower the specifications.

2) From observing Richard Kaller, deceased, and worth much more than $2400: keep up your physical regimen and don't live too much in your head.

3) From Mike Hicks: Peg your overhead to your labor (time) instead of your volume (gross)

4) From Tom Hay: remember "Da Game"

5) From Wally ("the corpse"): always help your "fellow roofertoids" if you can.