Mansard Problems

Lefty: The stupid tax is utilized here too. I don't see my company or my workers suffering because of T&M. I see it as a job where they can't lose. Like I said, I don't do many jobs T&M, and this won't be the last work I do on this building.

You sound a lot like my Dad(other times as well), it took a while to convince him to do T&M on occasion. He still isn't wild about it, though.

Twill: Agreed, I would imagine we all know a guy or two who charges a low rate and then milks it. I'd rather charge what I'm worth and work like I always do.

"Lefty: I strongly agree with your comment in the other thread that T&M rewards inefficiency. I'm proud to say that's not our style"

If you have any respect for your clients, this is a non issue. Come to the job prepared as well as you can be, work hard and bill them.

Maybe you're not charging enough for your time then Lefty. I actually charge more for T&M work than bid / priced work.

A different set of expenses. A different market. Different task.

For me. Your business structure might well be....different :)

Ahhh....... the ol "stupid tax"..... one of my favorties!!!

I can not slow myself down to where T&M is profitable.

With T&M I would need to put my most untrained and slowest workers on that job. Why would I put my best workers on a T&M job.

If I put my best workers on a T&M the customer would be the only one to win. My best workers will take the least amount of time and use the least amount of materials. It was not my mistake. Why should my workers and the company suffer for someone else's mistakes?

If I bid the job originally and did not get the job and am called back to repair it. I add a stupid tax. They had the chance to have it done right the first time and choose someone else. Now you pay extra.

And it can also be said that bid work kills quality.

I LOVE T&M work when I have the right guy doing it. Job done well. Future headaches avoided. And....workinga niche area that most roofers avoid as much as they can

I'm surprised at the other contractor. Very good reputation, demands the highest price for his work always. Unfortunately, we've had our crew screw us over when we weren't looking a decade ago, so I will retain my respect his firm even after this.

Lefty: I strongly agree with your comment in the other thread that T&M rewards inefficiency. I'm proud to say that's not our style.

clvr83 Said: natty: Im not saying the word lawsuit to these folks. I told them it was incorrect, but I was wondering if they would go that route.

I manually sealed every shingle on my last mansard, Ive been sleeping great since.

People who own properties like this don't really care about quality- they care about collecting rents, getting tax breaks, and going cheap. Asphalt shingles on vertical surfaces is really going cheap. Technically, I think there is a difference between a mansard roof and a vertical wall. Vertical walls need siding, not shingles. That said, as long as supposed professionals keep doing crappy work and continue to get away with it, sooner than later, crappy work is all that is going to be out there.

If they hear the hourly rate I use they would not give me the work. When they see a total price, I can sell the value of the work and the savings they will recieve.

We are re-nailing them all.

I don't do many T&M jobs. This is a valued client with a LOT of property and I feel this is the only fair way for both of us. This job isn't risky weather-wise, and doesn't require much talent(arguable.) I'd rather make a fair profit than shoot them a number that they think is too high. Me and Dad's estimates of a timeline were way different.

I'd imagine you have an hourly rate that you'd be happy to have your guys working at every hour they clock? That's how I look at it when I bid T&M, but I realize I'm missing out on those days that exceed expectations.

Are you renailing all the shingles or just the ones that are falling?

Either way I would figure a price to do it. Instead of a time and material. Time and material I lose money. Time and material does not pay me for my talents. Once the price is set there is no aurgument about the cost.

We have lots of mansard's around us. I nail them just like 3 tabs. 2 sets of double nails in the field and singles on the ends. More if the feeling strikes me to do it. Never had a problem with them sealing.

Yes, Dutch method.

twill59 Said: Howd they seal that downspout going through the roof?

Must be the old Dutch "goopenhope" method.

How'd they seal that downspout going through the roof?

There is a very tight window on the laminated shingles to make sure you get both the sawtooth and the laminate. If you don't get both, they will definitely slide loose like that. It is a problem of not nailing where they were supposed to. If you can get up there an renail everything and seal it, it may work, but there are a lot of them that are missing and when you replace shingles, they are always going to look blotchy. too bad.